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Josephine Just a thought - maybe the question should be about whether "Thelema" and/or "Thelemites" rather than restricting it to "OTOs" - AFAIK the two are not synonymous - and the Mass was/is for the Gnostic Catholic Church - which has several branch and links with various OTOs and none - If you'd allow that, then I'd say the "Thelemic movement" definitely has developed since Crowley, its first prophet. In my experience the movement probably works more with inner contacts than it does as an external manifestation - although i believe the mass was contructed as a public expression of its inner ideals. Some OTOs have an OHO - "Outer Head of Order" - which implies there is an "Inner Head" - perhaps "The Hidden God"?? "Love and do what you will" Mogg PS: Your post is maybe slightly loaded so maybe you are working up to some sort of critique of the Thelemic creed ? > > > > >