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Paul I didn't go into detail about mobile content - but the position is that if a computer is connected to a physical network, or to mains power, and is used to watch live TV, then a licence is required. This means that a library user can be watching live TV on a laptop that is running on batteries and is connected to the library network over wifi, and the library does not require a TV licence. The currently regulatory framework was developed some time ago, before services such as iPlayer were being planned and broadband was near-universal. DCMS is beginning the process of scoping the next broadcasting Bill, and this will, no doubt, be one of the many issues that will be considered during the process. David David Dawson Senior Policy Adviser - Digital Futures Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) Victoria House, Southampton Row, London WC1B 4EA Email: [log in to unmask] www.mla.gov.uk -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Donaghy Sent: 06 May 2008 13:07 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: MLA guidance on TV licences As the perpetrator of this thread I should thank everyone for the feedback thus far - it's been very illuminating. As suggested by some I have directed an enquiry to the TV Licensing Authority and I'll report back to the list when I've had an answer. I agree that using AUPs and filtering to block live transmissions just doesn't seem practical. The AUP angle just feels too woolly for a legal obligation - and it is contradictory as John says when set against the other things we're exhorted to do. The filtering option IMHO just won't work. What list are we supposed to use? How comprehensive does our blocking have to be to be legal? There are foreign sites popping up all the time with live feeds of Sky for example - how are we to keep pace. As far as I can tell our filtering software does not have a category of "Live TV feeds" so we're going to have to create and maintain that list manually. My final point concerns the examples of schools etc that have been used. This is to some extent a red herring. Most schools I know of have had TV sets for decades and used them in classroom settings (I remember that in my school days and that's going back a bit now...) so they would always have had a TV licence anyway. What we're talking about here is something completely different. We're talking about Internet connected PCs being considered as TV receiving equipment in their own right. It seems to me this is a seismic change in definition - you could say that if the definition of what needs a TV licence now encompasses Internet PCs then essentially the TV licence has become an "Internet licence". My question is really - is this the case? If it was, I would have expected far more publicity in the mainstream media - not too mention plenty of adverts on the BBC! That hasn't happened - which I why I still question whether a building with just Internet PCs and no TV equipment does need a TV licence. And followed to this logical conclusion - what about live TV on a mobile. Supposing I'm on a bus watching the live Snooker feed. My home licence doesn't cover that - does the bus company have to have a licence for each bus? Or does it have to put a disclaimer on each bus ticket (a la AUP) - or on the Oyster card? Can. Worms. Open... Cheers Paul Donaghy Electronic Library Services Manager L. B. Richmond upon Thames E-mail: [log in to unmask] Mobile: 07960 563 778 Web: http://www.richmond.gov.uk/libraries I am currently reading: Life, an unauthorised biography by Richard Fortey -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Usher, John Sent: 06 May 2008 12:35 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: MLA guidance on TV licences David, I am glad to see that, given no change in licencing till 2012, the MLA will now revisit the issue. I would, however, personally question the reilance on AUP's - if we put such statements in, whist pushing to increase network capacity, enable the PC's and relax the security to enable streaming media, as exhorted to by the MLA in recent years to support library content creation and meet user demand, will the TV Licencing Authority not see that as contradictory? Perhaps we need them to sue a library authority to create a test case? As to filtering, I asked 'how'? As each authorty connects separately and differently, it will indeed be necessary to do it locally, but I am happy to confess complete ignorance as to how we might allow access to a generally 'non-live' TV stream, but block the odd live transmission on that stream. If anyone can advise how - and how much it will cost! - I'd be very grateful. And as to schools and other council bodies - is there perhaps strength in mumbers? A joint approach on the issue by DCMS, DCSF and DCLG perhaps? Regards JU John Usher ICT Development Manager Islington Library & Cultural Services Islington Council Central Library 2 Fieldway Crescent LONDON N5 1PF Tel: 020 7527 6920 Mobile: 07825 098 223 Fax: 020 7527 6926 Alternative contact: Michelle Gannon - 020 7527 6907 www.islington.gov.uk > How to get to Central Library: http://www.islington.gov.uk/Education/Libraries/Local/Central.asp > -----Original Message----- From: David Dawson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 06 May 2008 00:04 To: Usher, John; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: MLA guidance on TV licences All This has been an interesting set of discussions. The MLA guidance was developed in conjunction with the BBC, and in discussion with DCMS. As Katharine Spackman has confirmed, the guidance is pragmatic, as it relies on Acceptable Use Policies to ensure that users do not watch live TV on library computers. As a result, libraries do not need to purchase a TV licence. To take John's options 1. All libraries to have a TV licence? The guidance was developed to avoid libraries having to purchase a TV licence 2. Live broadcasts to be filtered - but how? Filtering would need to be implemented at a local authority level 3. Get the MLA (and/or SCL?), the BBC and the TV Licensing Authority round a table to sort out the issue and come to an agreement we will all have to live with , until someone changes their minds (like the VAT on audio/video charges/fines issue)? I would suggest that this this is the situation we now have. Any change in the TV licencing regime would require amending the relevant Broadcasting Act. It is worth remembering that other council locations, such as schools, also need to purchase a TV licence if they are to receive TV programmes. 4. Abolish the licence fee - and the problem goes away. But then so probably does the BBC... A change in the BBC licence fee can only come after the end of the current BBC Charter in 2012 We will be looking again at the advice to see if it needs updating in the light of the rollout of iPlayer as a mainstream BBC service. It was developed during the pilot stage of iPlayer, and before similar services were offered by other broadcasters. David David Dawson Senior Policy Adviser - Digital Futures Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) Victoria House, Southampton Row, London WC1B 4EA Email: [log in to unmask] www.mla.gov.uk -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Usher, John Sent: 02 May 2008 16:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: MLA guidance on TV licences 1. All libraries to have a TV licence? or 2. Live broadcasts to be filtered - but how? or 3. Get the MLA (and/or SCL?), the BBC and the TV Licensing Authority round a table to sort out the issue and come to an agreement we will all have to live with , until someone changes their minds (like the VAT on audio/video charges/fines issue)? or 4. Abolish the licence fee - and the problem goes away. But then so probably does the BBC... I don't have the answer to 2. and suspect that 3. and 4 are unlikely to happen 'anytime soon', so my money's on 1. being inevitable, further eroding our budgets. And will we end up like the pubs, where Sky hiked their fees on the basis that the Sky service increased pub profits, so they were entitled to a share? http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/?p=1499 Will we end up with, in the end, an even higher licence fee for libraries, unless we have a similar arrangement that Microsoft has for a reduced 'academic' price for their applications provided we don't charge for the PC's? Unless we have a national library agreement with the national TV agencies, will we ever come to a conclusion? Just a thought! JU John Usher ICT Development Manager Islington Library & Cultural Services Islington Council Central Library 2 Fieldway Crescent LONDON N5 1PF Tel: 020 7527 6920 Mobile: 07825 098 223 Fax: 020 7527 6926 Alternative contact: Michelle Gannon - 020 7527 6907 www.islington.gov.uk > How to get to Central Library: http://www.islington.gov.uk/Education/Libraries/Local/Central.asp > -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Day Robert Sent: 02 May 2008 15:47 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [LIS-PUB-LIBS] MLA guidance on TV licences I understand the desire to change AUPs to reflect advice received but realistically, without filtering out live broadcasts, how can such a clause be monitored and enforced? It may be obvious if, say, the FA Cup final was being viewed but less so for many other live events. Robert Day IT Manager Cambridgeshire Libraries -----Original Message----- From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brown, Alan Sent: 02 May 2008 08:43 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: FW: MLA guidance on TV licences At 01 May 2008 10:50 David Tanner wrote: > their programmes aren't streamed live at the moment > Some are, BBC News 24 streams live as do certain sports events. I must admit I thought that we would not need to change our AUP because there was no live streamed TV on the internet - certainly iplayer wasn't anything to worry about. Now that I find I am wrong I will have to change our AUP. -- Alan Brown Library Systems Liaison Officer Resource Services Bury Libraries Textile Hall Manchester Rd Bury BL9 0DG Tel 0161 253 5877 Fax 0161 253 6003 http://www.bury.gov.uk/libraries http://library.bury.gov.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. 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