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Probably should define who I am talking about here... >>I wish that I *had* been with more responsible people, or people who >>wanted to "get mystic" rather then with scummy mind-f**kers.<< Combining charismatic/dominant people, drugs and religion together can be very potent. The first religious group I became involved with straight after finishing secondary school was Thelema, but not in an official form such as the OTO, just a charismatic magician who was the dominant person in a small group. We took lots of drugs, mainly under this guy's influence (yes, sure, we wanted to, but we all looked to him as the "wise one" - which is funny seeing as how he was only about 23 years old!). Anyway, in a mixture of youth, naievity and drugs we all *believed* literally in the contents of Crowley's "Book of the Law", we believed it was talking to us specifically. I guess this could have happened minus the drugs - and with a completely different religion - as religion is a potent convincing tool, but hallucinating probably helped us believe this. What's a bit weird is that this guy, now 20 years later so he's about 45, *still* believes that he is Aleister Crowley's heir. Sure, it was OK to think this in your early 20's but hasn't life and circumstances *shown you* that you are probably *not* Crowley's all-powerful and amazing heir.!?! I guess that's a bit like some Crowlean women, believing that the "Scarlet Woman" role specifically referes to them - which I used to believe myself 20 years ago, and I know people like Leah Hirsig and Marjorie Cameron were loathe to allow other women to use that 'title'. (Granted that they were *much closer* to the actual Crowley action than I was later on in 1984.) The thing is, this guy, this Crowlean magician, wasn't interested in any of us having a pleasant or enlightening acid trip... it was about him asserting dominance over us in our state of emotional dependence on him and about his 'cosmos' - although I don't think he would have consciously planned this, it was just his personality. (Like the local cult leader here, Anne Hamilton Burne, who is believed to have given LSD to the many children that she 'adopted' and then harangued them whiles under the drug about her spiritaul greatness, even though her 'cult' is actually about nothing at all except worshipping her, it seems!) What would have been nice was a person "leading" us sheep who actually cared about our spiritual development. In a much more (in)famous example, it was a mixture of hallucinogens, religious and magical concepts, and charisma that got the Manson Family out there killing people. Charlie had this idea about his "special-ness" about how he was Jesus and the Devil conbined and that concepts in the Bible related specifically to them. Recall also that Manson instructed 'his girls' to 'be witchy, do witchy things' which is why people like Doreen Valiente had to do public relations damage control later on "Oh no, they're not Witches" etc). So, what I'm trying to say is that I think the combination of drugs and magic/and/or/religion can lead to severe delusions of grandeur. But, you can probably leave out the drugs and just say religion/magic(k) can lead to this... Look at all the charismatic religious leaders who *really believe* that they are super-special... and all the acolytes who can't wait to agree with them. Didn't mean that to be my life story, but to explain who I meant by "mind-f**kers". From Caroline Tully. http://necropolisnow.blogspot.com/