medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
It may be of interest in this context that a local evangelical church in Charleston, SC, was in fact
properly oriented. I know this because when it was transfomed into a mosque, the Muslim community was
delighted that the didnīt have to rebuild because the building was already directed towards Mecca.
Meg
________________________________
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Maureen A. Tilley
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Ad Orientam (sp?)
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
The debate on orientation is contentious because we really do not have one straight-line history for orientation. There are early indications of orientation for baptismal rituals but not for Eucharist. The issue is further confused by the fiction of 'liturgical north', i.e., by the idea that no matter which way a church is actually 'oriented', once you are in the building, everyone refers to the altar as being toward the eastern end of the nave.
Certainly buildings taken over by Christians were not reeoriented and, in many cases, the lay of the land on the site prevented orienting of the church, e.g., St. Peter's in Rome and St. Salsa in Tipasa (now in Algeria). Baptismal fonts were easier to deal with because they were smaller and usually symmertrical.
Maureen A. Tilley
Visiting Professor of Theology
Fordham University
113 W. 60th Street
New York, NY 10023
212-636-6369
-----medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> wrote: -----
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From: Stan Metheny <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 04/21/2008 09:28AM
Subject: Re: [M-R] Ad Orientam (sp?)
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
The question of 'Ad Orientem' vs. 'versus populum' is receiving a lot of attention currently. Debate has become rather contentious in some circles, and the choice of vocabulary so fraught with overtones that it's difficult even to describe the status questionis in way that is perceived as objective. With that caveat, t he latest work is that of Uwe Michael Lang, _ Turning Towards the Lord: Orientation in Liturgical Prayer_. http://www.amazon.com/Turning-Towards-Lord-Orientation-Liturgical/dp/0898709865 <http://www.amazon.com/Turning-Towards-Lord-Orientation-Liturgical/dp/0898709865> . The links on the amazon listing offer other studies with historical background, i.a., those of Klaus Gamber, Aiden Nichols, Dennis Crouen, and Alcuin Reid.
Stan Metheny
----- Original Message -----
From: "George R. Hoelzeman" < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
To: < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: [M-R] Ad Orientam (sp?)
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> yes, my Latin is rusty, if it ever had shine at all, so I probably spelled that wrong.
>
> I've managed to get myself into a situation where I need to do a bit of liturgical history research, specifically the history of celebrating Mass and other
> Christian rituals while facing East. I'm guessing the Collective will provide the usual bibliography of erudite and useful tomes - which will be highly
> appreciated - but if anyone has some short answers to the following, it will be appreciated:
>
> - at what point does the practice of facing East become dominant? I seem to recall some arguements that Christians ALWAYS faced east when celebrating
> the liturgy, but cannot verify that. I have heard some argue that even in context of the Passover at the time of Christ the practice was to sit/recline at table
> facing east. This sounds suspect, but again, I have no verification one way or the other.
>
> - It is my impression that while orienting churches, et al was standard practice in the East, it was not so in the West. Bamberg Cathedral, for instance, I
> seem to recall is aligned N/S, not E/W. . . I also seem to recall reading in Jansen's History of Art that even in pre-Christian "paganism" temples in the East
> were oriented, while in the Roman west they generally were not. Clarify my perceptions?
>
> - What sources are there which shed light on the character of the ante-Nicean Liturgy? I obviously have a plethora of references on structure and practice
> during that era, and yes, I am plodding through bibliographies looking for further resources, however thusfar I've not discovered specific description of how
> the community would arrange itself during the various Liturgies. My initial impression is that communal arrangement was relatively free-form, not unlike the
> approach to early (again, ante-Nicean) anaphoras.
>
> - Finally, it is my impression that some developments in liturgical art and architecture emerge in direct continuity from the immediate past (Gothic out of
> Romanesque, Early Byzantine out of Late Antique) but other times there is a conscious and almost radical break with the previous era (Renaissance from
> Gothic). Is there any basis for this impression or is that more the subject for a thesis/dissertation?
>
> Thanks for whatever and all information provided.
>
> George the Less
>
> George R. Hoelzeman
> G.R.Hoelzeman Studios
> Liturgical Design Consultant
> grhstudios.com
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
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