This discussion is in danger of becoming bad tempered and unproductive. I’d suggest a moment of pause and reflection; sit back, re-read previous posts and try and see what the author is trying to say because at the moment there is a danger of replying to what we THINK the other person has said or means in a very rapid tit-for-tat manner from which comments could quickly escalate into dismissive abuse and irrelevance. It is clear there is a difference of opinion on the illegal occupation/legal liberation of Tibet, a probably insurmountable difference of opinion and no-one would expect otherwise. But that should not preclude the expression and attempt to understand what those opinions actually are and how they have been formed. One may disagree with them or see flaws in the argument presented, but it should be possible to express these without the ad hominems and hyperbolic language associated with conflict (battle) rather than contestation (disagreement).

Whilst this event (the disruption of Olympic plans and focus on Tibet) will undoubtedly still be here to be discussed on the forum next week I for one am off to enjoy the weekend, time to do some gardening, drink some wine, forget about work and enjoy time off from thinking deep thoughts.

Enjoy,

Marc Welsh

From: A forum for critical and radical geographers [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ahchee Liu
Sent: 11 April 2008 17:58
To:
Subject: 回复：Re: 回复：Re:Help me support Team Tibet ! It's not a black or white i

David,

Ok, if I'm 'cherry-picking', then you are 'hujiaomanchan', a Chinese term referring to importunating something not in a logical way.

I didn't read all your emails, so I have nothing to say about that. But when you said 'people suddenly appearing on this list, having never posted anything here', you're ignoring my previous two emails. My starting point was to show some different opinions might be ignored or inaccessible by westerners here. Then you wondered 'why the position of those who argue agains the boadly conceived 'western liberal' position on this issue so resembles the Chinese government position'. First of all, before answering your questions, what do you mean by 'western liberal position'? what do you mean by 'broadly conceived'? Exporting and imposing western values to other countries/cultures is what you call 'liberal position'? How broad are these liberal position have been conceived? How many percentage of people in the world are buying these 'superior' western values? Were people in Iraq and Afghanistan desepately waiting for western fighters to liberate them from dictatorsh and give them the so-called 'democracy'?

Second of all, I did not show any 'anti-western liberal position' opinion in my first email. I just pointed to some missing accounts here. Then how come my position resembling the Chinese government's position? Did you mean any non pro-Tibet opinion is resembling the Chinese government? I believe if you would come a little bit away from you self-important moral defender position, you will understand not all people who do not agree with you are resembling the Chinese government. And if this was only your own paranoiac fantasy, I don't have an answer for it.

About your second question, 'whether the the Chinese occupation of Tibet is legitimate (In a legal sense) or right (in a moral sense)'. It is legitimate according to international law and national law in China, if you still have any respect to them. It's more debatable in a moral sense. But from the viewpoint of Chinese Han, it was right, because otherwise Tibet would fall into the hands of imperialist hegemony sooner or later, which is not necessarily better than what it is now. Look at Iraq!!! By the way, you would accuse me at this point that I resemble the government's position. Well, do whatever you want. But this is based on the knowledge I had and the information I gathered. At least I've tried to be as objective as possible.

One last point, if you want to call me 'unable to identify yourself apart from the government that is being criticised here', then do it if it can bring you joy by distorting people's perception.

Ahchee

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