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Gadzooks, sir, last week. I lead a sheltered life I fear, far from the thrall of the bard. Roger On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >Once upon a time, I thought that death was the final curtain on all > drafts but I was listening to a Radio 3 program on Shakespeare and > music and I discovered that even this great demi-god of english > poetry was re-drafted by successive generations.< > > Zounds, Roger, when did you discover that?! > > > > On 27/03/2008, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > Once upon a time, I thought that death was the final curtain on all > > drafts but I was listening to a Radio 3 program on Shakespeare and > > music and I discovered that even this great demi-god of english > > poetry was re-drafted by successive generations. Milton, IIRC from the > > program, thought that S was "unpolished." Others added and subtracted > > whole passages and characters. The rot sets in later with the sanctity > > of the text, and all that tosh. A living breathing art requires all > > drafts to be provisional. Even ones considered "perfect" by their > > authors. > > > > Roger > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:44 AM, David Bircumshaw > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Thinking more about this, Nathan, I would suggest that, although one > > > understands the feeling behind the quote, there possibly are some > > poems, > > > probably all quite short ones, which are, for want of a better word, > > > 'finished' because one could not change any element of them without > > spoiling > > > their effect. > > > > > > > > > On 27/03/2008, Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might be wrong and can't find a reference now but it think it was > > Auden > > > > who said poems aren't finished, just abandoned. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Halvard Johnson < > > [log in to unmask]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I've always thought anything one writes to > > > > > be a draft--somewhere between and including the first > > > > > draft and the final one. (To the extent that anything is final, > > > > > of course.) > > > > > > > > > > But then sometimes a cold beer is a draft too. > > > > > > > > > > Hal > > > > > > > > > > "We are the zanies of sorrow." > > > > > --Oscar Wilde > > > > > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > > > > ================ > > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > > > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > > > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:25 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > well I wrote it yesterday so I think it qualifies as a draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not wild about the first line, it could get absorbed into an > > > > > > eventual > > > > > > (final) title. Perhaps. I do sometimes write "social historical" > > > > > > poetry but > > > > > > it's not easy to incorporate the necessity of facts within the > > > > > > requirements > > > > > > of poetry. Such facts tend to be lumpy and arrhythmical. Like > > > > > > handling great > > > > > > globs of wet sticky clay. > > > > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26/03/2008, Martin Dolan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Hi Dave > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Not the sort of thing idea, but if this is a draft, it's a good > > one. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I like the way you contrast the specificity of the 1848 events > > with > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> vagueness/fadedness of the link to you. The interplay of images > > > > > >> (such as > > > > > >> between the fuse of the Manifesto and the firedamp) works well > > for me > > > > > >> (had to check up on Kossuth, though). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I'm not sure about the first line - even if it's necessary in > > > > > >> light of > > > > > >> the title. Also not sure about co-patrilineal: trying to > > compress to > > > > > >> much into the line, maybe? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If you've got more like these, I'd like to see them. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Regards > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Martin > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> Circum circa > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Circa a European Year of Revolutions, > > > > > >>> of Kossuth and Cavour and Louis Napoleon's Eighteenth Brumaire, > > > > > >>> when Chartists massed, faintly tinted in life colours, > > > > > >>> in the first known crowd photograph > > > > > >>> and a grim economist fused a hissing manifesto, > > > > > >>> one man found everything to lose, > > > > > >>> one man preserved > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> by the Heanor and District Historical Society, > > > > > >>> one man who might have been > > > > > >>> co-patrilineal > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> to this one, scribbling here, a bone trace of age unstated, > > > > > >>> Joseph of my surname, asphyxiated (circa) > > > > > >>> 1848 at a firedamp lit hard seam at Loscoe pit. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > > > > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > > > > > The Animal Subsides > > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > > > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > David Bircumshaw > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue > > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" > > The Go-Betweens > > > > > > -- > > > David Bircumshaw > Website and A Chide's Alphabet > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too" The Go-Betweens