 |
 |
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Tom is of course right, and the diocese of Lincoln was often 'cut down to size': the see of Ely in the ec12; sees of Oxford and Peterborough in the C16, and the see of St Albans (I believe) in the C19 all took chunks of a diocese the size of a small country. I believe bits of the see of Southwell were also once in Lincoln. As Edwards makes clear, some bishops were not even members of chapter...> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:57:32 -0400> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [M-R] Sufragan Bishops> To: [log in to unmask]> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture> > I believe that the size of a diocese like Lincoln made administration even> more difficult. That may be why new sees were created after the> Reformation. Thus Bristol & Gloucester, among others.> > The following book made me wonder how closely a bishop was involved with> his cathedral day to day:> > The English secular cathedrals in the Middle Ages:> a constitutional study with special reference to the fourteenth century.> Kathleen Edwards> 1967 2nd ed.> English Book Book xx, 412 p. front. 4 plates (incl. facsim.), tables. 23 cm.> Manchester, Manchester U.P.; New YOrk, Barnes & Noble,> > Tom Izbicki> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture> >> >> > A fascinating clarification, Rosemary. Thank you.> >> > The subject would indeed make an excellent project: part of the even wider> > one of how bishops organised and funded their households/administration,> > and the relationship between these men and the chapters of cathedrals. I> > find the question especially intriguing at the monastic cathedrals, where> > almost all episcopal work must have taken place almost entirely> > independent of the monks. The bishop's households at these cathedrals must> > have been large and complex communities of Churchmen: yet as far as I can> > see this never made them aspire to any institutional collegiately of their> > own (unless anyone knows different...) Perhaps there is some useful> > information in Hamilton Thompson. Must have a look...> >> > Jon> >> >> > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:23:39 +0000From:> > [log in to unmask]: Re: [M-R] Sufragan BishopsTo:> > [log in to unmask]: Scholarly discussions> > of medieval religion and culture> >> >> > My own studies of English bishops (which includes noticing rather than> > concentrating on their suffragans) suggests that while it was quite common> > for them to give benefices to their suffragans, it was rare for these> > benefices to be as important and wealthy as the prebends and> > archdeaconries. I think this may be explained by sensitivity to the fact> > that most of the suffragans were friars and, therefore, should not be> > reaping rich rewards from spiritual duties but I suppose, if one took that> > argument to its logical conclusion, they should not have received any> > benefices. Bishop Alnwick of Norwich used a Franciscan Robert Ryngman,> > bishop Gradensis, throughout his Norwich episcopate (1426-37: but only> > when he was unable to act himself) and does not seem to have showered him> > with rewards; he used William Gunwardby, bishop of Dunkeld (and there are> > other instances of Scottish bishops cited in HBC) while bishop of Lincoln> > (1437-49) and rewarded him with the vicarage of Cople, Bedfordshire. -> > Perhaps the latter was possible because Gunwardby was secular? Or it may> > be that Ryngman was given something in Norwich by Alnwick's predecessor,> > Wakeryng who certainly also used him but I am afraid I do not have any> > references. In 1491 Bishop Hill of London collated a benefice on the> > resignation of one James, late bishop of ???Daren' (sorry, I cannot be> > sure - it may be one of the Irish bishoprics), who was to be given a> > pension, which implies that Hill's predecessor had given the bishop the> > benefice.> >> > As ever, I would also recommend that old standby Alexander Hamilton> > Thompson, 1873-1952. The English clergy and their organization in the> > later middle ages. The Ford Lectures for 1933. Oxford, 1947. - it has> > several pages on suffragans> >> > It looks like there is much more research to be done through the episcopal> > registers - maybe a major project for someone?> >> > I am working on Bishop Hill and Bishop John Hales of Coventry and> > Lichfield for the ODNB and have some queries I hope you can all help me> > with - watch this space!> >> > Rosemary Hayes> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: Jon Cannon> > To: [log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:39 PM> > Subject: Re: [M-R] Sufragan Bishops> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture> >> > Excellent refs for me, too, Rosemary - thank you. John - I believe I have> > just got hold of the right end of the stick (my own stick being a rather> > thick short plank), and having done so could clarify what may be useful to> > you from what I sent you. I noted in my list that suffragans had a range> > of titular sees, and sometimes worked for more than one bishop, though> > neither are at the nub of your interest. But I also noted one example of a> > suffragan with an English preferment, which is I think more what you are> > after - though in this it was not an archdeaconry, rather it was nothing> > less than a bishopric: - Carlisle. In this case there were very specific> > political circumstances behind the appointment. Interesting, all the same.> > I didn't note anyone who had other English titles, but I have to say this> > feature - which I now belatedly realise is what you are most interested in> > - would not have been picked up by me because it doesn't particularly> > suprise me. Surely archdeaconries or other titles might be handed out by a> > bishop seeking to bolster either the role, or the standing, or (if a> > prebend came with them, as was sometimes the case) the income of anyone> > particularly crucial to his administration or his familia? I wonder if> > Suffragans might even yet prove tobe a particularly common example of> > this, if they had no income from their titular see. Indeed (not quite the> > same point I know), some archdeaconries - Kent, Richmond come to mind -> > were associated with high standing and a kind of quasi-episcopal power in> > and of themselves. In other words, in certain circumstances it seems to> > me to be quite a normal medieval practise to give such posts to a> > suffragan, vicar-general or suchlike. I wonder if it was in fact quiet> > common, just rarely noted. Jon> > ********************************************************************** To> > join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to:> > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to:> > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message:> > leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report> > problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:> > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit> > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html> > ********************************************************************** To> > join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to:> > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to:> > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message:> > leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report> > problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:> > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit> > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html> > **********************************************************************> > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME> > to: [log in to unmask]> > To send a message to the list, address it to:> > [log in to unmask]> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion> > to: [log in to unmask]> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:> > [log in to unmask]> > For further information, visit our web site:> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html> >> > **********************************************************************> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME> to: [log in to unmask]> To send a message to the list, address it to:> [log in to unmask]> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion> to: [log in to unmask]> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:> [log in to unmask]> For further information, visit our web site:> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html