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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Right - that's precisely my question. . . if the description in John is accurate (which may be an open question, I dunno) then the there are some issues with the shroud itself. This, in my mind, creates a separate anomaly: The medievals would certainly have been aware of the inconsistencies between the Johannine account and the Turin shroud . . . as evidenced by your reference to period painting. So, why would a forger create something so obviously at variance with the Gospel account, and even more, why would it gain credence? Oh, wait . . . silly me! I live in Arkansas. We see that sort of thing every day ;-)) Still, I'm curious about several things. Why does John even mention the cloths? I'm wondering if there is something else going on here. . . maybe I need to drag out some other references. . . George (increasing inclined to exert some effort) On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:52:33 -0400, Christopher Crockett wrote: >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >From: "George R. Hoelzeman" <[log in to unmask]> >> In a related vein, how reliable is the description of the burial cloths in >the Gospel of John >not an expert on John, obviously, but it occurred to me in your previous post, >George, that his description of the burial cloths is not particularly >consistent with the Image on the Shroud: >20:6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; he saw the >linen cloths lying, >20:7 and the napkin, which had been on his head, not lying with the linen >cloths but rolled up in a place by itself. >clearly, two "cloths," one for the head (i.e., presumably, over the face). >the fact that the cloths were "in a pile" is (as we see it always portrayed in >medieval art) evidence of the Resurrection, and has no bearing on the Image on >the Shroud. >the Man on the Shroud was, apparently, placed on one end of the spread cloth, >the other end being folded over the reclining body, from the head down to the >feet. >this doesn't preclude the existence of a "napkin" for the face/head, though >there is no trace of suchlike an object on the Image. >which is, of course, entirely irrevelent, since any Art Historian worth her >psalt can see immediately that the Image on the Shroud is just another one of >your standard, garden-variety 14th c. French Paintings. >(right, Jim?) >>and how would 1st cento burial cloths be arranged with head cloth and body >wrappings? >who knows? >not i. >c >> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:09:28 -0400, Christopher Crockett wrote: >> >> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> >the BBC programme will, obviously, be close to worthless --even if >actually >> >seen in GB. >> >> >this page >> >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm >> >> >explains that the programme is based on a serious scholarly article >published >> >in the journal Thermochimica Acta, familiar to us all. >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] >> To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >> to: [log in to unmask] >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] >> For further information, visit our web site: >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >> >********************************************************************** >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >to: [log in to unmask] >To send a message to the list, address it to: >[log in to unmask] >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >to: [log in to unmask] >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >[log in to unmask] >For further information, visit our web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html