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I praise your objective outlook on Obama, which I would apply to Hillary Clinton, too. I belong to that group of people that see politicians as a quite corrupted caste especially after all these years spent in Italy. The president of our province (not region) South Tyrol of which Bolzano is the main town with 100,000 inhabitants earns 25,000 euros per month, while writing the figure I still cannot believe it and I'd rather reduce it to 15,000, both seem shocking to me. By the way he belongs to the German ethnic group: Mr. Durnwalder. My students told me and since I did not want to believe it, one wrote a composition on it. Data were later confirmed. As I said in class I would not accept such an amount of money only because I would feel guilty in front of other people, what should I be doing to deserve such a salary? Since someone has to be chosen I agree with you that Hillary is well-educated and has experience, hopefully she's practical enough to keep faith to what she preaches. The Clinton era for those who lived abroad was a panacea, Americans were finally recognized as living beings. So long, On Feb 7, 2008 2:53 PM, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Obama's major role as a vp candidate, I think, would be to encourage > Black and young supporters to make it to the polls. It's difficult to > be messianic from the second slot. As always, it's the top of the > ticket that makes the difference. After Clinton and McCain finished > agreeing about the three or four non-Republican positions McCain > holds it would be pretty much the usual slugfest about the war, the > economy, healthcare, with the underlying mostly unacknowledged gender > issue consuming a lot of the oxygen. McCain really has only one issue > to run on. Women vote in larger percentages than men, and Hillary > would get the entire antiwar vote. The likeability issue would of > course be in play, but it's difficult to imagine that McCain would > continue to succeed as the loveable, unpredictable younger brother as > much as he has. > > I poet I greatly admire as both a writer and a person said on another > list that she's voting for Obama because he makes her feel good--all > that hope, all that unity. Messianism is a tricky business, and > pretty neutral: the worst and some of the best politicians have > espoused it. Hitler, according to Germans I've spoken to with > impeccable and hard-earned antifascist credentials, was an amazing, > inspiring speaker. One gets some sense of this from Triumph of the > Will, which is so effective that I've found myself tearing up when > watching it, and hating that I was doing so. I'm not saying that > Obama is Hitler. He may even be a very nice man with good intentions, > though I doubt those good intentions are what leads him to see > himself as the necessary man of the hour--blind ambition and > megalomania, the usual currency of presidential politics, is a safer > assumption. But the manipulation is similar. Buttons are pushed, we > suddenly feel part of a greater movement, our egos \melded with the > crowd's--we become part of the messianic cause, larger and better > than ourselves. My experience has been that one wakes up eventually > with a very bad hangover. Kennedy, who was more fun (all those > women), died before we found ourselves hovering around the toilet > bowl. Inspiring to some (never to me--I would have preferred > Stevenson), he gave us the Bay of Pigs and the Vietnam War and little > else. > > I guess I don't like being manipulated. One can argue that all > politicians do so, that Hillary was faking the emotional moment, but > in general she has refused to do so, talking nuts and bolts and > longterm goals instead. There's an honesty in that. And she'll get us > universal health care if anyone can. > > Health care is a major issue in more ways than the obvious. Whenever > I travel in countries where it exists I'm astonished by the > difference in the tone of daily life, the lower stress-level, the > sense of not being trapped by the need to maintain membership in this > or that employer-generated plan. Want freedom? That's a place to start. > > OK, I've gone on too long. Obama could help a Clinton ticket just as > effectively by campaigning for her as by campaigning with her. > > Mark > > At 05:52 AM 2/7/2008, you wrote: > >If a Clinton/Obama ticket materializes, what result would you predict > >against McCain/Whoever? > > > >Barry > > > > > >On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:09:06 -0500, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> > >wrote: > > > > >I can't imagine either ticket, though I think Clinton/Obama would win > > >extra votes. Obama is surely aware that whatever committments Clinton > > >made upfront would be nonbinding. He would be better served to spend > > >the next eight years becoming a first-rate, courageous senator, > > >learning something perhaps from Ted Kennedy.. > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >At 02:17 PM 2/6/2008, you wrote: > > >>These divisions may well be resolved by a Clinton-Obama ticket. And > this > > >>only if Clinton (& Clinton) make a deal that gives Obama power and > > >>experience. > > >> > > >>I can't imagine an Obama-Clinton ticket, unless she is far more > altruistic > > >>than any politician is allowed to be. > > >> > > >>On 2/6/08, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > This may be inappropriate for a poetry list, but I've got to share > it > > >> > with someone. I just stopped off to pick up lunch at the Dominican > > >> > place downstairs. On the counter were two tabloids, the Daily > News, > > >> > which had a picture of the Giants homecoming, and El Diario, whose > > >> > headline screamed "Fuerza Latina!" There's been a lot of writing > > >> > about the mutual hostility of Black and Latino voters and its > effect > > >> > on primary votes, but I think there's something more at play: if > > >> > Latinos go for Obama they're junior partners in his coalition. If > > >> > they go for Hillary they play a major role in getting her > > >> > elected--it's not just prejudice, or affection for Bill, but a > sense > > >> > of Latin power, as the gheadline says--that Latins will have chosen > > >> > the president. And that, in America's (and almost anywhere else's) > > >> > divisive politics, will give them a lot of clout. > > >> > > > >> > So I thought beyond this insight. Obama's campaign of generalized > > >> > hope appeals overwhelmingly to Blacks, obviously, but also to > > >> > upper-income, better-educated Whites, and students in training to > > >> > become such, especially males. This is the least-vulnerable group > in > > >> > US society, and the best able to sustain a gamble. If Obama's > health > > >> > care plan fails, for instance, or fails to include 25 million > people > > >> > they don't socialize with, it barely affects them. Voting for an > > >> > uplifting message entails little risk. > > >> > > > >> > That group, incidentally, tracks as more liberal than Clinton's > > >> > supporters, although she is a shade to Obama's left > > >> > > > >> > Clinton's support comes almost entirely from those most vulnerable > or > > >> > most dissatisfied with the social constraints they perceive as > placed > > >> > upon them: the lower-income, less-educated, hispanic, elderly, > > >> > female. All of these groups see themselves as outsiders > > >> > > > >> > So here's Obama's problem: he somehow has to gain the trust of > > >> > Hillary's voters, who appear to be absolutely certain that anything > > >> > they get will come out of the nasty business of hardball, divisive > > >> > politics. If he loses to Hillary, some Black voters may or may not > > >> > stay home in the general election, but the White Obama constituency > > >> > will almost certainly fall in line. If Obama wins, he'll lose some > of > > >> > Hillary's constituency to McCain, who's well-liked by Hispanics and > > >> > can speak the language of the elderly, and a great many of the > > >> > lower-income will stay home, as they often do. > > >> > > > >> > Ironically, Hillary's despicable Iraq Resolution vote would > probably > > >> > neutralize some of McCain's appeal, although it's become > increasingly > > >> > clear that she'd get us out of Iraq no more slowly, and no faster, > > >> > than Obama would. > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >> > > >> > > >>~ SB | http://www.sbpoet.com | =^..^= > > > >========================================================================= > -- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!