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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Some contributors to this thread may find a book edited by the Russian scholar Aleksei Lidov of interest: New Jerusalems: The Translation of Sacred Spaces in Christian Culture: Material from the International Symposium (Moscow: Indrik, 2006). It is available from the online bookstore Panorama http://www.panrus.com/books/details.php?langID=1&bookID=13061 and also in the British Library. Texts are available in English and Russian, and address topics such as 'The creation of Holy Land Imagery as the mainstream of Christian culture' (Lidov); 'The liturgical tradition of Jerusalem and the 'Jerusalemization' of sacred spaces' (Pentkovsky); 'The imagery of the Heavenly City in sixth century Byzantium' (Maria Luigia Fobelli) and 'The desert as Heavenly Jerusalem' (Popvich). I have a copy, and am happy to scan and email the contents pages to anyone interested. Best to all, Stella At 19:29 16/01/2008, you wrote: >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > >From: "Grover Zinn (imap)" <[log in to unmask]> > > > hard to summarize what "topography" means in Bruun's book. There is a >Biblical topography of which B is conscious, and which he uses, but there is >also a spiritual/tropological, etc. journey through the topography of B's >Jerusalem, Paradise, etc etc. > >yes, as i suspected. > >"tropological" was the word i was looking for but couldn't think of, >off-hand. > >that's certainly the "key" to the whole idea, seems to me. > >manifests itself in multiple forms, in the West. > >e.g., the liturgical processions around Latin Jerusalem might be (and >apparently were) "replicated" in processions around, say, Chartres. (Jaroslav >Folda has worked on the Jerusalem liturgies; Margot Fassler, of course, on the >Chartrain.) > >or, within buildings themselves, there might be various "stations" (my >inadequate word) which were "replications" of Holy Land topography (i have in >mind the interesting, but not-too-good-alas, thoughts along this line which >Linda Seidel put forward in her "Gislebertus" book: the tomb of St. Lazare >within the church acting as a tropological surrogate for the Real thing in the >Latin Kingdom). > > >Much lies in the exegetical turns taken by B > in his sermons, etc. -- and the >"spiritual' interpretation topographic details. > >yes. > > >Jerusalem is a place, but a monastery, a > piritual/celestial reality, etc etc. > Also the concept of the "journey"---real/life journey/spiritual journey, >etc. > >yes. > > > BTW, can you give me references to sources for the Abbey of St. Mary of >Josaphat (France) > >Margot will be talking about it more than a bit in her forthcomming (or maybe >published) Chartres book --the Founder, Bishop Godfrey (II) "of Leves" turns >out to have been a great Builder and one of the most important churchmen of >his time (died 114x). > >given that, there's not been too much work on the place in a century or so >--the church itself (at Leves, a far suburb of Chartres, downstream on the >Eure about a mile, a very nice walk) was basically destroyed in the wars of >religion, but the ruins (partly excavated c. 1900) demonstrate that it was a >very, very nice and substantial structure, a rare and precious exemplar of >what "early gothic" looked like in that region in the second and third quarter >of c. 12. > > >it was the necropolis of both the Leves family (a.k.a. "Le Riche/Divitis") and >the 12th (after Ivo, who was buried in his beloved St. John's) & early 13th c. >bishops of Chartres (John of Salisbury's tomb being the the most famous one of >the surviving group). > >the (two vol.) cartulary is available on http://gallica.bnf.fr: > >Métais, Charles. Cartulaire de Notre-Dame de Josaphat. (1117-1217). > >Métais' edition of the charters is more than a bit Funky, but he has a pretty >good histoical introduction in Tome I, which is the most complete account of >the place yet written. > >he also was responsible for the excavations of c. 1900, the results of which >were (more or less) published but is a hard book to find (i happen to have a >copy, which i believe i've OCRed). > >that's about it, best i can recall. > >check out Margot's new book. > > >and the Jerusalem church. > >this is the abbey (Benedictine, i believe) built over the supposed tomb of the >BVM, orginally pretty early, venerated somewhat by the Infidels, rebuilt and >expanded under the Latin Kingdom. > >the surviving charters were published as: > >Chartes de Terre Sainte provenant de l'abbaye de N.-D. de Josaphat publiées >par H.-François Delaborde,... Paris : E. Thorin, 1880. 153 pp. (Bibliotheque >des Ecoles francaises d'Athenes et de Rome, fasc. 19) > >also available on Gallica. > > >as it happens, a seal (bulla) from the abbey was recently found in excavations >of an important abbey South of Chartres: > >Racinet, Philippe, et al. Archéologie et histoire d'un prieuré bénédictin >en Beauce: Nottonville, Eure-et-Loir, Xe-XVIIe siècles. Paris: Comité des >travaux historiques et scientifiques, 2006. [Josaphat Seal: pp. 146-150, “Du >témoin sigillographique la preuve textuelle”] > >Racinet, Philippe and Marc Bompaire, "Une bulle de Notre-Dame de Josaphat >(Jérusalem) découverte en fouilles Nottonville (Eure-et-Loir)", dans >Mémoires de la Société nationale des antiquaires de France, 1993, p. >350-357.] [cf. Bompaire, M. "Trouvailles de bulles et de monnaies de l'Orient >latin en France : quelles relations?" in Jehel, Georges, et al., eds., Orient >et Occident, IXe-XVe siècles, histoire et archéologie, Actes du Colloque >d'Amiens, 8-10 octobre 1998 (Histoire médiévale et archéologie, vol. 11,), >2000, pp. 75-84. L'A. présente la bulle de plomb, provenant du prieuré de >Nottonville, de l'abbé Gilduin du monastère de Josaphat en Palestine, qui >appartenait la famille du Puiset établie dans le royaume de Jérusalem où >elle détenait la seigneurie de Jaffa. La diffusion des monnaies et des sceaux >de l'Orient latin montre la nature des relations Orient-Occident de l'époque >des croisades.] > > > > >Does the church near Jerusalem appear on the surviving fragments of the >Madaba map > >i have no idea. > > >or is the church too late for that? > >Viday Soupra. > > >(Madaba is a very interesting aspect of the early "Christianizing" of the >"Holy Land" since the map is full of markers, shrines, etc. transforming the >topography into a Christian (not Jewish) topography. Mapping, or >naming/delineating, can transform the viewed object (in this case, landscape). > But that has more to to with modern > theories of mapping, etc. (which are of > >interest, of course, to those of us who ponder medieval maps--extant or not >extant [H. of S.V.'s drawing, for instance]) > > >i think that there has been quite a bit of work on this, re the Latin Kingdom >and 12th c. Jerusalem, in particular, but the literature is spread out all >over the place (art history, crusade history, etc.) and i don't know it. > > > > enough for now. > >never "enough" > >"now" or later. > >what a Curious Concept: "enough" > >c > >********************************************************************** >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >to: [log in to unmask] >To send a message to the list, address it to: >[log in to unmask] >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >to: [log in to unmask] >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >[log in to unmask] >For further information, visit our web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html