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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture From: "Grover Zinn (imap)" <[log in to unmask]> > hard to summarize what "topography" means in Bruun's book. There is a Biblical topography of which B is conscious, and which he uses, but there is also a spiritual/tropological, etc. journey through the topography of B's Jerusalem, Paradise, etc etc. yes, as i suspected. "tropological" was the word i was looking for but couldn't think of, off-hand. that's certainly the "key" to the whole idea, seems to me. manifests itself in multiple forms, in the West. e.g., the liturgical processions around Latin Jerusalem might be (and apparently were) "replicated" in processions around, say, Chartres. (Jaroslav Folda has worked on the Jerusalem liturgies; Margot Fassler, of course, on the Chartrain.) or, within buildings themselves, there might be various "stations" (my inadequate word) which were "replications" of Holy Land topography (i have in mind the interesting, but not-too-good-alas, thoughts along this line which Linda Seidel put forward in her "Gislebertus" book: the tomb of St. Lazare within the church acting as a tropological surrogate for the Real thing in the Latin Kingdom). >Much lies in the exegetical turns taken by B in his sermons, etc. -- and the "spiritual' interpretation topographic details. yes. >Jerusalem is a place, but a monastery, a piritual/celestial reality, etc etc. Also the concept of the "journey"---real/life journey/spiritual journey, etc. yes. > BTW, can you give me references to sources for the Abbey of St. Mary of Josaphat (France) Margot will be talking about it more than a bit in her forthcomming (or maybe published) Chartres book --the Founder, Bishop Godfrey (II) "of Leves" turns out to have been a great Builder and one of the most important churchmen of his time (died 114x). given that, there's not been too much work on the place in a century or so --the church itself (at Leves, a far suburb of Chartres, downstream on the Eure about a mile, a very nice walk) was basically destroyed in the wars of religion, but the ruins (partly excavated c. 1900) demonstrate that it was a very, very nice and substantial structure, a rare and precious exemplar of what "early gothic" looked like in that region in the second and third quarter of c. 12. it was the necropolis of both the Leves family (a.k.a. "Le Riche/Divitis") and the 12th (after Ivo, who was buried in his beloved St. John's) & early 13th c. bishops of Chartres (John of Salisbury's tomb being the the most famous one of the surviving group). the (two vol.) cartulary is available on http://gallica.bnf.fr: Métais, Charles. Cartulaire de Notre-Dame de Josaphat. (1117-1217). Métais' edition of the charters is more than a bit Funky, but he has a pretty good histoical introduction in Tome I, which is the most complete account of the place yet written. he also was responsible for the excavations of c. 1900, the results of which were (more or less) published but is a hard book to find (i happen to have a copy, which i believe i've OCRed). that's about it, best i can recall. check out Margot's new book. >and the Jerusalem church. this is the abbey (Benedictine, i believe) built over the supposed tomb of the BVM, orginally pretty early, venerated somewhat by the Infidels, rebuilt and expanded under the Latin Kingdom. the surviving charters were published as: Chartes de Terre Sainte provenant de l'abbaye de N.-D. de Josaphat publiées par H.-François Delaborde,... Paris : E. Thorin, 1880. 153 pp. (Bibliotheque des Ecoles francaises d'Athenes et de Rome, fasc. 19) also available on Gallica. as it happens, a seal (bulla) from the abbey was recently found in excavations of an important abbey South of Chartres: Racinet, Philippe, et al. Archéologie et histoire d'un prieuré bénédictin en Beauce: Nottonville, Eure-et-Loir, Xe-XVIIe siècles. Paris: Comité des travaux historiques et scientifiques, 2006. [Josaphat Seal: pp. 146-150, “Du témoin sigillographique à la preuve textuelle”] Racinet, Philippe and Marc Bompaire, "Une bulle de Notre-Dame de Josaphat (Jérusalem) découverte en fouilles à Nottonville (Eure-et-Loir)", dans Mémoires de la Société nationale des antiquaires de France, 1993, p. 350-357.] [cf. Bompaire, M. "Trouvailles de bulles et de monnaies de l'Orient latin en France : quelles relations?" in Jehel, Georges, et al., eds., Orient et Occident, IXe-XVe siècles, histoire et archéologie, Actes du Colloque d'Amiens, 8-10 octobre 1998 (Histoire médiévale et archéologie, vol. 11,), 2000, pp. 75-84. L'A. présente la bulle de plomb, provenant du prieuré de Nottonville, de l'abbé Gilduin du monastère de Josaphat en Palestine, qui appartenait à la famille du Puiset établie dans le royaume de Jérusalem où elle détenait la seigneurie de Jaffa. La diffusion des monnaies et des sceaux de l'Orient latin montre la nature des relations Orient-Occident de l'époque des croisades.] >Does the church near Jerusalem appear on the surviving fragments of the Madaba map i have no idea. >or is the church too late for that? Viday Soupra. >(Madaba is a very interesting aspect of the early "Christianizing" of the "Holy Land" since the map is full of markers, shrines, etc. transforming the topography into a Christian (not Jewish) topography. Mapping, or naming/delineating, can transform the viewed object (in this case, landscape). But that has more to to with modern theories of mapping, etc. (which are of interest, of course, to those of us who ponder medieval maps--extant or not extant [H. of S.V.'s drawing, for instance]) i think that there has been quite a bit of work on this, re the Latin Kingdom and 12th c. Jerusalem, in particular, but the literature is spread out all over the place (art history, crusade history, etc.) and i don't know it. > enough for now. never "enough" "now" or later. what a Curious Concept: "enough" c ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html