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Alistair, I'm not sure if you are refering to my email or the message I was responding to. My postings to the list were being moderated, which is why it took until this morning to get thru to the list. This has now been rectified (thanks Nicole). I'm not sure why you wouldn't have seen Al's original posting. Andy -- Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/ http://efoundations.typepad.com/ [log in to unmask] +44 (0)1225 474319 > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion list for Shibboleth developments > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alistair Young > Sent: 23 January 2008 09:54 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: LA (Re: LA (mixed messages)) > > hmmm, I didn't get the original of this email (posted to the > list) - why would that be? hope I'm not missing some vital info > > Alistair > > > -- > mov eax,1 > mov ebx,0 > int 80h > > > Al, > > I'll try and answer but coming from inside one of the two > > organisations concerned I'll concede that you may feel like > I haven't 'clarified' > > anything! :-) > > > > Clearly, you are witnessing a disagreement. Whether it is of the > > school playground variety is a different matter. I tend to > disagree > > at this stage, though I'm sure something can be arranged if > necessary. > > > > Also clearly, the disagreement has to do with cost vs. value - the > > cost at which we felt it was viable to offer the gateways was in > > excess of the value the JISC chose to put on them - there was a > > disagreement about price, pure and simple. Who was right > and who was > > wrong in that disagreement is another matter of course, as is the > > issue of whether some middle ground could have been > reached. I'm not > > aware that we refused to negotiate (I could be wrong) but > in any case, > > from what I've seen, the gap between the two sides was such that I > > doubt any negotiated agreement could have been reached even if a > > longer period of negotiation had been allowed. > > > > Clearly, this is unfortunate for the community. We did not > take our > > side of the decision making lightly, at least as far as I > understand it. > > I'm sure the JISC would say the same. I'm equally sure that both > > sides of the argument feel like they are taking the 'best' > decision in > > the circumstances. Sometimes things just don't work out. > > > > The bottom line, from our perspective as an educational charity, is > > that we have to take not-for-profit business decisions around those > > services that we believe to be of value to the community in > order to > > ensure the onging viability of the charity overall - we > can't simply > > provide services at well below our own costs. > > > > Andy > > -- > > Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation > > http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/ > > http://efoundations.typepad.com/ > > [log in to unmask] > > +44 (0)1225 474319 > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discussion list for Shibboleth developments > >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roberts A.L. > >> Sent: 22 January 2008 13:18 > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: LA (mixed messages) > >> > >> Dear list, > >> > >> > >> > >> Can someone clarify who is actually not willing to > negotiate...? The > >> press releases from both sides say that the other is to > blame - see > >> below. > >> > >> > >> > >> The JISC statement says: > >> > >> Eduserv had asked JISC for a non-negotiable price for the > provision > >> of the Gateway Services significantly above what the JISC Board > >> believed could be justified as a balanced or fair > expenditure within > >> the JISC services budget and as a value for money option for the > >> education community as a whole. > >> > >> The Eduserv statement says: > >> > >> > >> > >> "The non-negotiable offer we received from the JISC did > not approach > >> the projected full economic cost of the service in > >> 2008/2009 or provide a sustainable basis for the future. " > >> > >> > >> > >> Am I the only one that feels like they are witnessing a school > >> playground argument? > >> > >> > >> > >> AL > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mr. Alexander Roberts > >> > >> Web Development Officer > >> > >> Library and Information Services > >> > >> Swansea University/Prifysgol Abertawe > >> > >> +44 (0)1792 513239 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >