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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I think it all hinges on the technical term used to describe Joseph in the Greek NT. While I cannot speak to the 1st C. classification of professions (used loosely in this context) I do know that by the Middle Ages professions/skilled trades, etc. were pretty clearly stratified and if one used a specific term to describe someone's trade, it pretty narrowly described that trade. Beyond that, I would point out that in modern circumstances, while a carpenter might build cabinets, he almost never does professionally and would not be described as a cabinetmaker or jointer. I grew up with carpenters and come from a long line of people engaged in woodworking. Some built houses for a living, some did not. Most did other types of woodwork, but none did more than one trade for a living. While it is risky to extrapolate from modern stratification to a 2000 year old situation, it does offer some context for speculation, particularly when there is a long history of consistency. Thus are the principles of anthropology based (you can learn about past civilizations/cultures based on the behaviours of modern socieities which have similarities). The Medieval guilds pretty strictly stratified the trades into their various categories. While it is true that the panel painter may have done jointery work, he appears to have been more likely to farm out jointery work to those skilled in those areas. Jointers, it seems, based on evidence from both Italy and Upper Germany, constructed everything from altars to icon panels, to chests, etc. They, in turn, relied on a different profession to go out into the forest and harvest trees, etc. Yes, it is true that it was not uncommon for forest encampments of woodworkers to include a variety of professions, but each was farly well delineated. Even family names reflect these delineations. Zimmermann was a house builder (literally "room-man) or carpenter in our thinking. Hoelzemann was less clearly defined as anyone who worked with wood, although its likely it was primarily a jointer. So, yes, there was some nuance, but a technical term like tekton would - it seems - be unlikely applied to someone engaged in a general woodworking profession, or to someone who built homes. But, I will also point out, that 1st C. Palestine is not my area of expertise, and would see this as a very interesting point of scholarly discussion, although it may not be exactly medieval in character. George (curiouser and curiouser) On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:40:00 -0600, John Dillon wrote: >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >How has it been established that being a carpenter and being a cabinetmaker were mutually exclusive in Joseph's environment? I am aware of twentieth- century North American carpenters who also do cabinetry or other joining and I doubt that I am unique in that awareness. Was Joseph's situation so different that he as a carpenter could not also have been a joiner? >What does one profess in order to be a carpenter? Put another way, why should carpentry be considered a profession and not a skilled trade? >What evidence is there for the existence of a rumor (_sic_) that Joseph was a cabinetmaker, as opposed to a suspicion or a guess that he might have been one? If there is no such evidence, what is the point of asserting, in a forum for scholarly discussion, the existence of a rumor to that effect? >Best, >John Dillon > >On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 1:56 pm, V. Kerry Inman wrote: >> It has not been established that Joseph's profession was anything but >> a >> carpenter! It is an unsubstantiated rumor that he was a cabnetmaker! >> Can any >> one offer any proof? I have not seen it yet! >> >> V. Kerry Inman >> >********************************************************************** >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >to: [log in to unmask] >To send a message to the list, address it to: >[log in to unmask] >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >to: [log in to unmask] >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >[log in to unmask] >For further information, visit our web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html