 |
 |
I'm confused as to what your point is ________________________________ From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Fryer Sent: 05 December 2007 14:32 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. FYI ** Thousands receive electric shock treatment ** The first official figures for eight years on the use of controversial electric shock treatment show that hundreds of people were treated against their will. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/460864.stm David ________________________________ From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of David Fryer Sent: Wed 12/5/2007 10:09 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Hi Craig and all, Agreed . . . psychiatry then ... psychology now . . . nursing soon. But the point is that if a psychiatrist (so long as s/he followed 'procedures') deprived your child of her liberty and put a powerful electric shock through your child's brain against her will causing brain damage that would be quite legal and your defending your child against the psychiatrist could result in you being charged with assault whereas (at the moment in the UK) if a psychologist did the same the psychiatrist would be behaving illegally and could be charged with assault. However not agreed that the rejection of individualistic and psychologistic ways of understanding and deciding where and how to intervene is just an 'abstract' discussion - indeed I think it is a key to distinguishing between critical and acritical approaches. David ________________________________ From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Craig Newnes Sent: Wed 12/5/2007 09:48 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Hi, There are 4 states of the US where psychs can prescribe (after a 6 week course on psychopharmacology - whatever that is). In general they are loathe to use the power as they feel underqualified so Big Pharma is rapidly encouraging nurses (a much bigger work force) to take it on. The difficulty is that such powers are mediated thru individuals and the injections are indeed given to individual bodies. This can be discussed entirely in the abstract - but if a psychologist, GP or psychiatrist tried to inject one of my children, I would punch them. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: David Fryer <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Hi Craig, It is good to hear of the work you and Guy have been doing but that is different from the issue being discussed previously. I had just assumed that we would both (all on this list) have no time for a '"psychologist good", "psychiatrist" bad rubric' as we reject individualistic levels of analysis, etc. I am not here interested in whether individual people "would be equally happy to lock people up and give ECT" whatever their professional identity since that takes us back into individualism. The key is in the 'would' since, at the moment, psychiatry provides the means for 'would' to be turned into 'can' whereas psychology does not (in the UK now). You referred to a '"psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric'. I think that, in so far as one can meaningfully separate it from the psy-complex (and as I said before, I would prefer not to place psychology and psychiatry in a hierarchy of oppression as I think they are both manifestations of an oppressive psy-complex), psychiatry as a set of social practices and legitimising 'knowledgements' does construct more means for the exercising of oppressive power than psychology (at the moment in the UK) As you know clinical psychologists have already got prescription privileges in some US States, I think that will spread and that eventually clinical psychologists in the UK will get prescription privileges too, not least because Big Pharma are salivating at the prospect of a new massive workforce of prescribers and will do all they can (which is a lot) to bring that about. When that happens psychology as a set of social practices and legitimising 'knowledgements' will have edged closer to psychiatry in terms of constructing more means for the exercising of oppressive power. However that should not distract us from the even more important point that psychology and psychiatry (and counselling and confessional TV and mindfulness and . . . ) are all dovetailed manifestations of the psy-complex. David ________________________________ From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Craig Newnes Sent: Tue 12/4/2007 23:28 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Hi, What folows is the outline of a day Guy Holmes and I do on Prescribing Powers. At an event in Leicester two years back 21 qualified clin psychs were asked to vote on whether they (we) should have prescribing powers or not. After the programme outlined they voted again. The programme includes the kind of material discussed by Rose in relation to the Psy-complex and makes it pretty clear that psychiatrists are not demons but also caught in the power trap. And of course it outlines what psychotropics do to people. The result of the vote was: pre day 12-9 against prescribing powers; after the day 16-5 against. TWO of the five said they wanted to give out drugs because they would get free stuff from Big Pharma. They would be equally happy to lock people up and give ECT. Vote: For and against prescribing privileges Potential positive and negative aspects of prescribing What we know about medication Presentation: § The Position of Professionals (Goldie) § Promising Potions § Assumptions § The American Experience Happy Valley (video) Discussion Vote Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: David Fryer <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:47 PM Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Hi Craig, I would prefer not to place psychology and psychiatry in a hierarchy of oppression as, after all, according to Rose they are both just manifestations of the 'psy-complex' However if I really had to choose I would bear in mind that psychiatry (but not psychology currently in the UK) gives some the power to take away others' rights by 'sectioning' them and then inflicting electric shocks or psychotropic upon them against their wishes. David ________________________________ From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Craig Newnes Sent: Tue 12/4/2007 10:15 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: FW: Mental Health and Employment As a long term insider (I was an observer on the DCP national executive for over 20 years) I would add that some on the list don't seem aware how embedded the BPS is in these power structures. Two examples; the DCP has pursued statutory regtistration of psychological therapies since at least 1990 despite arguments about closed shops and the much more critical position that you can't legislate for conversations between consenting adults. On the CBT front Peter Kinderman, when chair, was wetting himself with pleasure when invited to the DoH planning committees on the future of CBT. He was following close in the footsteps of Glenys Parry, Malcolm Adams and Anne Richardson, all of whom had gone from chairing the DCP to senior positions in the DoH as expert advisors. The BPS have been embroiled in the planning game at govt level since at least 1987 tho curiously many of the individuals doing this seem to have the envy driven "psychology good" "psychiatry bad" rubric. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Smail" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] FW: Mental Health and Employment > Annie - in response to your last two postings. > > I think you do an excellent job of listing the difficulties, and I also > see > little chance of things changing in the short or medium term. I think > perhaps that one of our problems is that we (insofar as one can talk of > 'we' > on this list!) are both apathetic and scornful in the face of the > institutions of power (though not at all in other ways), whereas those > 'we' > often see as 'them' (e.g. Layard et al.) are patient, persistent, > industrious - sometimes, indeed, obsessive in the lengths they will go to > to > find their way around the structures that shape and support our society. > As > an example, I think a perusal of the 'CORE' website (start at > http://www.ucl.ac.uk/clinical-health-psychology/CORE/CBT_Framework.htm) is > instructive. Until I read it,I for one had no idea how thoroughly > embedded > the CBT lobby had become in the DoH,etc., and one can see some of that > influence reflected in the dismaying document you attached. > > I don't of course know what the answers are - if there are any - but I > doubt > if press releases will achieve much, even if they get taken up. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Annie Mitchell > Sent: 04 December 2007 07:59 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] FW: Mental Health and Employment > > Dear all, > > Lots to critically comment on re the attached latest government > initative.. > For example note the business language in this. People are called > customers. > > Annie > > > ________________________________________ > From: Social Inclusion Discussion Group > [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 03 December 2007 13:28 > To: Annie Mitchell > Cc: Ana Padilla; Graham Turpin > Subject: [social-inclusion] Mental Health and Employment > > Dear Colleagues > > Please find attached a statement from Peter Hain Secretary of State for > Work > and Pensions. > > with all good wishes > > Nigel > P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail, or its > attachments > > > > Can we send this out asap, > > Many thanks, > > Fabian > > Dr. Fabian Davis > > Consultant Psychologist (Community & Social Inclusion) Lead for Social > Inclusion Bromley Mental Health Services Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust Ist > Floor Keswick House 207A Anerley Road Penge London SE20 8ER > > Tel: 020 8778 9548 > > ________________________________ > From: Carol Chads [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 30 November 2007 17:25 > To: Carol Chads > Subject: > > > Dear All > > Please see the attached for your information. > > Best regards > > Brendan > > Brendan McLoughlin, > Programme Director for Wellbeing, Inclusion and Psychological Therapies, > London Development Centre, part of the Care Services Improvement > Partnership, 11-13, Cavendish Square, London W1G 0AN Phone; 020 7307 2431 > Mobile: 07721 670863 > e-mail: > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > The British Psychological Society > > This email is intended for the addressee only. It may contain confidential > information: disclosure of or action in reliance upon this information by > anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the > intended recipient, please notify us by return email and delete the > message. > > Any views are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those > of > the Society, which accepts no liability for the consequences of any > actions > taken on the basis of this information unless confirmed in writing by a > Society Manager. > > We accept no liability for any loss or damage caused by viruses: you are > advised to conduct your own checks on any attachments. When emailing us, > be > aware that email is not a 100 percent secure medium > > The British Psychological Society is a registered English charity - > Charity > Registration Number : 229642 - VAT Registration Number : 240 3937 76 > > www.bps.org.uk > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > > * --You are currently subscribed to > > social-inclusion as: > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> . > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [log in to unmask]<mailto:%%email.unsub%%> > > ----------- > Change Your Account Settings<http://lists.bps.org.uk/read/my_account> | > View > Previous messages<http://lists.bps.org.uk/read/my_forums> | Forgotten > Password? <http://lists.bps.org.uk/emailpassword.tml> > > ----------- > The British Psychological Society is a registered English charity Charity > Registration Number : 229642 - VAT Registration Number : 240 3937 76 > > > ___________________________________ > COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. > To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML > For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on > [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] > > ___________________________________ > COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. > To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML > For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on > [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.10/1159 - Release Date: > 29/11/2007 11:10 > > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] -- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.10/1159 - Release Date: 29/11/2007 11:10 ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] -- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.10/1159 - Release Date: 29/11/2007 11:10 ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] -- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] -- The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask] Help us to be the best we can be ... Become a member of Sussex Partnership and help us to fight stigma and raise the profile of mental wellbeing. Visit our Foundation Trust membership web page for more information and a membership application form. ************************************************************************* This message and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient please accept our apologies and delete the email after advising the sender of the error. Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. The information contained within it may be subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act (2000), unless it is legally exempt from disclosure. ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]