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I really, really was not going to enter this debate (at least until after next week)! My fundamental point would be that we should not self limit. Start somewhere. £4m this year. What size of cake in the future? Sustainable mobilities ain't going to go away. I would want to say thank you Sustrans for at least getting the ball rolling and creating this initial success with epsrc and putting walking and cycling much more 'on the map'. What should we do as a CSRG to approach say, esrc, in the way Sustrans approached epsrc? Dr John Parkin Reader in Transport Engineering and Planning University of Bolton Deane Road, Bolton BL3 5AB UK t:01204 903 027 m:07903 523 017 w: http://data.bolton.ac.uk/staff/jp10/ -----Original Message----- From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Horton Sent: 02 November 2007 11:21 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: EPSRC meeting next week Hello all A couple of thoughts on the EPSRC/Sustrans research call process. It feels important to me that we do have some discussion about this, rather than simply let it pass by - after all, this call and the money attached to it is likely to have consequences for all of us. With £4m allocated to cycling and walking research, I think it might become very hard to get funding for other cycling research - kind of 'cycling's had its share of research council resources for the next few years'. I hope I'm wrong, but that's my suspcicion. Of course, getting a place on the Coventry workshop was a competitive process, and no doubt lots of very experienced, very good, and senior academics applied, and the intended research is about cycling AND walking, not just cycling (and I for one am not a well-rounded 'sustainable mobilities' researcher - I'm too heavily oriented towards cycling to be able convincingly to argue that), and the EPSRC - not the ESRC - look to be the dominant research council in this process, and the whole thing was initiated by Sustrans. And these things are always political. So I don't think it's too surprising some of us didn't get selected (and it's good that some of us did). But this is the concern I want to express openly, and invite others to comment on: the whole EPSRC/Sustrans research package seems completely oriented towards assessing interventions undertaken under Sustrans' Connect2 project (leaving aside whether it actually manages to 'win the public vote' - and the absurdities of such funding of sustainable transport infrastructure). Yet the Connect2 project represents only part of the sustainable transport picture. There is vastly more going on than Sustrans' work, significant though that is. Further, *all* the cultural, social, political, economic and planning processes implicated in the production of 'sustainable mobilities' and 'sustainable infrastructures' need, I think, to be put into context and subject to critique (after all, we know that 'the Sustrans approach' is not uncontroversial, and it's certainly not taken-for-granted as 'the right way to promote cycling' within 'the cycling world'). So I think my concern, in a nutshell, is Sustrans' influence in this research process might orient it rather more towards 'monitoring and evaluation' type studies than to more open and critical investigations. And of course, who is included and who is excluded from the outset will either encourage or discourage that from happening. I am not suggesting that specific people or even projects will be directly 'in the hands' of Sustrans, nor that - when it comes to it - those involved won't contextualise their studies and ask difficult questions and apply critical lenses. But different disciplines look at issues in different ways, and so I hope that the social sciences are well represented at Coventry. There needs to be sociologists, historians, cultural geographers etc involved in the earliest conversations about the directions which this research stream could and perhaps should take. Sorry this isn't brief, but I think it is important for all of us. Best wishes Dave Horton ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Patton" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Re: EPSRC meeting next week Hello again, I'll admit I'm the outsider here (had to look in a dictionary to find out that "hard lines" means "tough luck"), and may not understand the complexion of the various research councils, but ... When I see a notice advocating the creation/encouragement of new, innovative, cross-disciplinary research consortia, specifically seeking to include "social equity" and "community building", and then find that at least two organizers and editors of the "Cycling and Society" symposia and book are left out, it makes me wonder. For my part, although I would probably not be able to apply directly as an investigator, being from the colonies and all, I would have brought something to the table. I am an academic geographer and GIS map maker, with degrees in natural resources and science and technology studies. I'm an experienced government transportation official (cycling/pedestrian division), and have worked with the North American analogue of Sustrans. My present historical studies look at the interwar years, when decisions were made that continue to shape the present conditions of British cycling. I would argue that not enough voices were included in the debates then. It would be a shame to persist in that approach now. None of this, of course, should be taken for disregard of the quantitative, empirical side of things. Numbers are necessary, but not sufficient. Many thanks to those attending for their willingness to report back to colleagues here. All best ... David Patton On 11/1/07 2:17 PM, "Paul Rosen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Oh well, it was off the record till I clicked send! > > Paul Rosen wrote: >> Thanks, Tim - you're right, it is telling. My worry (off the record for >> now) is that Sustrans are pulling the strings too strongly here, given >> that they have effectively been given £4m of R&D out of the public >> purse, and they've closed off scope of what might develop at a very >> early stage. >> >> Best, >> >> Paul >> >> Tim Jones wrote: >>> I'm also attending. Will feedback along with John and Tim. Hard lines >>> to the others. I think it is telling that the 'quantitative barriers >>> to cycling' boys made the first hurdle being as we are dealing with >>> the EPSRC here but I think you are right that it would be good to >>> understand the selection criteria. >>> >>> Tim Jones >>> OBU >>> >>> Tim Ryley wrote: >>> >>>> I have found out in the last day that I too have a place, and am >>>> willing, like John, to provide feedback to the group. I am hopeful >>>> that it will develop upon cycling research being undertaken, and link >>>> well with the Cycling and Society group. But will have to wait and >>>> see. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> Dr Tim Ryley >>>> Lecturer in Transport Studies >>>> Transport Studies Group >>>> Loughborough University >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:15:37 -0000 >>>> "Parkin, John" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a place. I will let you know how things went and the make up of >>>>> who went when I have been. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dr John Parkin >>>>> Reader in Transport Engineering and Planning >>>>> University of Bolton >>>>> Deane Road, Bolton BL3 5AB UK >>>>> t:01204 903 027 m:07903 523 017 >>>>> w: http://data.bolton.ac.uk/staff/jp10/ >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Horton >>>>> Sent: 31 October 2007 10:43 >>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>> Subject: Re: EPSRC meeting next week >>>>> >>>>> Hiya David and all >>>>> >>>>> I applied for a place, but didn't get one. >>>>> >>>>> But, like David, I think it'd be good to be kept in the picture by >>>>> someone who is going, if someone's willing to do that. >>>>> >>>>> I hope someone from this group is going .... >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes >>>>> >>>>> Dave Horton >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Patton" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:26 AM >>>>> Subject: EPSRC meeting next week >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> Will someone attending the Coventry workshop mext week please post an >>>>> update to the group? I won't be there, but am very interested to see >>>>> what >>>>> sort of cross-disciplinary teams come out of the meeting. >>>>> >>>>> Best of luck to all attendees. >>>>> >>>>> David Patton >>>>> >>>>> Clare Hall >>>>> University of Cambridge >>>> >>