Dear CCP4ers, I've asked you about symmetry in stereographic projections of self- rotation functions, because I have in a monoclinic space group with beta=97 a peak for a NCS 7-fold axis at Phi=83, Psi=90, Kappa=51.4. In this self-rotation function, calculated with GLRF, the monoclinic b-axis is oriented from south-pole to north-pole. Thus, with Psi=90, the 7-fold lies in the a,c-plane, and I was wondering wether it points along the c-axis by some symmetry element, since 83=180-97. Pierre Rizkallah pointed to the fact that the self-rotation function is calculated in Patterson space which has an inversion centre, and Ian Tickle has pointed me to the POLARRFN documentation that discusses some of these symmetries. From this, I can, in my case, construct the following symmetry-equivalent positions: (1) Original Peak: Phi, Psi, Kappa --- > 83, 90, 51.4 (2) General equivalent position: 180+Phi, 180-Psi, -Kappa ---> 263, 90, -51.4 (3) Crystallographic Dyad || Poles: 180+Phi, Psi, Kappa ---> 263, 90, 51.4 (4) (3) combined with (2): Phi, 180-Psi, -Kappa --- > 83, 90, -51.4 Thus, none of these combinations gives a Phi-angle of 97 degrees. However, meanwhile Liang Tong, the author of GLRF, explained to me, that in his convention, a positive Phi angle goes from +X (=a) to -Z (=-c*), which means that Phi=83 points really along the (-)c-axis (thus confirming my initial hypothesis). 7-fold / / / b-------------- a /| / | / | / | c c* So, many thanks to all of you who replied and helped me to solve this puzzle! I would still be interested in a textbook or paper discussing symmetry in stereographic projections, though ... Best regards, Dirk. Am 22.11.2007 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Kostrewa: > Dear CCP4ers, > > does any of you have a good reference describing the symmetry of > crystallographic stereographic projections? There is a lot of > literature describing rotational symmetry in Eulerian angular > space, but I'm not aware of any for polar angles. In particular, > I've calculated a self-rotation function for a crystal in space > group C2 with a monoclinic beta-angle of 97 degrees in a convention > where Phi is the angle from the x-axis (=a-axis) and Psi is the > angle from the monoclinic b-axis. I get a beautiful peak for a > seven-fold rotation axis at Phi=83 degrees and Psi=90 degrees. I > think that the seven-fold NCS-axis should point along the > crystallographic c-axis, but then I would expect Phi=97 and Psi=90. > Presumably, there must be a symmetry with the term Phi' = 180-Phi, > but I would like to _know_ it. I would be grateful for any pointer > to a good reference describing symmetry in crystallographic > stereographic projections, also for future cases. > > Best regards, > > Dirk. > > ******************************************************* > Dirk Kostrewa > Gene Center, A 5.07 > Ludwig-Maximilians-University > Feodor-Lynen-Str. 25 > 81377 Munich > Germany > Phone: +49-89-2180-76845 > Fax: +49-89-2180-76999 > E-mail: [log in to unmask] > ******************************************************* > > ******************************************************* Dirk Kostrewa Gene Center, A 5.07 Ludwig-Maximilians-University Feodor-Lynen-Str. 25 81377 Munich Germany Phone: +49-89-2180-76845 Fax: +49-89-2180-76999 E-mail: [log in to unmask] *******************************************************