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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Hi, You wrote: >I have to balance your unsupported declaration against the evidence to the contrary. Take it up with all who disagree: http://www.jacquesdemolay.org/ So where is the evidence? >>"Templars: a red cross paty on a white ground/mantle/surcotte, Hospitallers: a white cross paty on a black (later also red) ground/mantle/surcotte. Even colourblind observers may notice the difference. And after 1307/12 there would have been no more confusion at all." Henk >My note about the confusion had nothing to do with color or clothing, but transfer of property. Before 1307, to the orders' contemporaries, the visible difference in clothing and the heraldry on all the orders' property was clear enough to see the difference, as it should be for modern people who are interested in this. After 1312 it did not matter anymore because the property of the Templars was in the hands of the Hospitallers or in those of the new Iberian orders who are nothing but the Templars in a thin disguise. It does not bode well vide trustworthyness for a website on the Molay when they portray him dressed in a mantle and surcote with the cross of the Teutonic order. Mind you: all websites on medieval matters which are exclusively illustrated with 19th c engravings or other neo-gothic art are suspect in my book. Henk _____ Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter 1342 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. Download de gratis SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/lnl> vandaag nog! ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html