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Thanks for this John (and Nick for your further illuminating reply), I (re-)read the MDA's copyright pages and the Manifesto (as well as the very interesting paper about "Coase's Penguin"). "Manifesto" and "exploitation", not to mention "Intellectual Property" are words / phrases loaded with primarily negative connotations for many groups, specifically important client groups such as academia (incl. the open source / open content community). A more neutral and accurate choice of terms may help foster balance between access and revenue raising. Open content is still in its infancy and has, AFAIK, yet to deploy any licence with collective defence provisions against "IP exploiters" (c.f., GPLv3). The risk is that if the open content community perceives a threat from "traditional business models" such licences may get introduced. In the long-term, it could be a case of not "What (little) you can throw at the web" but rather "What the (big) web can throw back at you". Regards, James On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, John Faithfull wrote: > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 11:10:37 +0100 > From: John Faithfull <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [MCG] MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums > > Hi James, > > When I heard of the "Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums" my > initial reponse was depression at the gung-ho angle implied by the > title. Having briefly read the document, I think I'm even more > depressed. > > While we have to be aware of these issues, especially in terms of using > other people's material, but they are not at the core of what museums > do. We are about disseminating information, not controlling it. For most > areas of most collections, these issues can easily become a distraction > from encouraging access and use, and often generate serious delusions > about what is desirable and/or possible. > > I think Nick is a bit too quick to dismiss the wiki-fiddlers in these > matters. As James said, we are organisations getting public money to > spend on caring for collections and making them as accessible as > possible. This has to be our main focus. > > I'm not actually against a manifesto dealing with these matters, but I'd > like to see the commitment to access being emphasised, and the idea of > institutional "property" played down. It simply isn't realistic for most > museums to earn significant sums of money from controlling access to > most parts of their collections, or information about objects. > Encouraging the widest possible access and use is likely to be a much > better way of ensuring that collections are valued by society, and > attract the resources they need. > > John > > Dr JW Faithfull > Hunterian Museum > University of Glasgow > G12 8QQ > > Tel: 0141 330 4213 > Fax: 0141 330 8001 > > Email: [log in to unmask] > Online catalogue: http://www.huntsearch.gla.ac.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of J > Martin > Sent: 03 September 2007 01:27 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums > > Hi, > > Aside from pointing out that ideas don't get "used up" when shared, > unlike physical objects, I'll keep this reply "real". > > Some thoughts / questions / concerns I have are: > > We've largely adopted free admission policies for the bulk of cultural > heritage institutions in the UK. IMHO this is great and consistent with > maximising cultural enrichment and learning for all. Clearly that leaves > a potential funding gap for many institutions. That said, it would, > again IMHO, be a mistake to rely too heavily on e.g., licensing > copyrighted material that we hold in trust for the people for funding > especially when applied to non-commercial entities as this would be > detrimental to maximising access for all. > > Even whether / when to protect the integrity of reproductions of > copyrighted material or not can be the subject of intensely polarised > debate. > > Other issues such as trademark protection (including electronic > resources) are usually straightforward by comparison. > > Anyway, I welcome the production of the Manifesto and such involved > issues being discussed / addressed. > > Regards, > > James > > On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Tehmina Goskar wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:44:16 +0100 >> From: Tehmina Goskar <[log in to unmask]> >> Reply-To: Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]> >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [MCG] MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for >> Museums >> >> As many wise Greek has pointed out, all property was once theft. Pick > >> the bones out of that one. >> >> Tehmina >> >> On 02/09/07, Nick Poole <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Treading softly here since there is absolutely no point getting into >>> the highly solipsistic debate about the nature of property - the >>> phrase 'Intellectual Property' can and should be used, irrespective >>> of your concerns about issues of principle. >>> >>> It has long since moved into common parlance and is a useful and >>> pragmatic shorthand for an important area of professional practice > and legislation. >>> >>> I have long been familiar with this debate on the related Wikipedia > pages. >>> They present a very politicised and polarised set of arguments - >>> albeit under the cover of balance and impartiality - and I am not >>> convinced that they are all that useful in this context. >>> >>> Ultimately, sometimes language moves on to the point at which there >>> is no longer anything you can do about it. >>> >>> Why do I have this feeling that I am going to regret this post? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Nick >>> >>> Nick Poole >>> Chief Executive >>> MDA >>> The Spectrum Building >>> The Michael Young Centre >>> Purbeck Road >>> Cambridge >>> CB2 2PD >>> >>> Tel 01223 415 760 >>> >>> www.mda.org.uk >>> www.collectionslink.org.uk >>> www.culturalpropertyadvice.gov.uk >>> >>> MDA (Europe) Ltd. Registered company number 13000565. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > >>> J Martin >>> Sent: 01 September 2007 11:31 >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> The phrase "Intellectual Property" is legally meaningless and should >>> not be used. It is a term that has been pushed by WIPO over the past >>> quarter century to attempt to shift perceptions towards equating >>> ownership of ideas with ownership of things. See >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property for more details. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Naomi Korn wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:57:14 +0100 >>>> From: Naomi Korn <[log in to unmask]> >>>> Reply-To: Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: [MCG] MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for >>>> Museums >>>> >>>> Apologies for cross postings >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Naomi Korn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IP Consultant >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> www.naomikorn.com <http://www.naomikorn.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> (020) 8886 1764 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 07957 761 032 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> From: Naomi Korn [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>>> Sent: 31 August 2007 18:52 >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> graphic >>>> >>>> PRESS RELEASE >>>> >>>> MDA launches Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums >>>> >>>> MDA - a leading provider of copyright and intellectual property (IP) >>> advice >>>> and training to museums - has announced the publication of an >>>> Intellectual Property Manifesto for collections. >>>> >>>> The Manifesto aims to increase understanding of the relationship >>>> between >>> IP >>>> issues and best practice in the management of museum collections. It > >>>> sets out MDA's priorities for delivering services which will best >>>> enable >>> museums >>>> to take advantage of the commercial, creative and educational >>> opportunities >>>> presented by effective management of their IP. Planned activities >>>> include the development of standards, training courses and new >>>> resources; lobbying for changes in legislation; and working in >>>> partnership with Government and other key stakeholders from across > the cultural heritage sector. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, members of MDA's Intellectual Property Advisory Committee > >>>> - an independent expert panel of leading figures from the legal, >>>> publishing >>> and >>>> picture library industries - are meeting today with representatives >>>> from >>> the >>>> UK Intellectual Property Office. Among the subjects for discussion >>>> will be 'orphan works' and the process of due diligence, and how >>>> these issues >>> impact >>>> on the core collections care activities of museums. >>>> >>>> Naomi Korn, MDA Intellectual Property Officer, commented, 'By >>>> working in collaboration with organisations both within and beyond >>>> the heritage >>> sector, >>>> MDA is seeking new ways to help museums deliver effective services >>>> to the public through the management of copyright and other related >>>> rights. The launch of the Manifesto and the work of the Advisory >>>> Committee give us a voice in influencing the strategic development >>>> of copyright in the UK on behalf of the museums community.' >>>> >>>> To download a copy of the Intellectual Property Manifesto, and for >>>> further advice and information on intellectual property issues, > please visit: >>>> >>>> www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright >>>> <http://www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright> >>>> <http://www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright> >>>> >>>> ## >>>> >>>> Notes for Editors >>>> >>>> MDA is the UK's focus for standards, expertise and advice in the >>>> professional management of collections, and a leading organisation >>>> in the provision of intellectual property support to the sector. >>>> www.mda.org.uk <http://www.mda.org.uk> <http://www.mda.org.uk> >>>> >>>> MDA's Intellectual Property Manifesto for Museums is available to >>>> download free from: >>>> www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright >>>> <http://www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright> >>>> <http://www.collectionslink.org.uk/get_to_grips_with_copyright> >>>> >>>> The MDA IP Advisory Committee was created to establish a position >>> statement >>>> on IP and collections, and to instruct the future development of >>>> MDA's >>> work >>>> on IP and rights management. Members include representatives from >>>> the Bridgeman Art Library, DACS (Design and Artists Copyright >>>> Society), the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA), the >>>> British Library, BAPLA (British Association of Picture Libraries and > >>>> Agencies), Finers Stephens Innocent LLP, CILIP (Chartered Institute >>>> of Library and Information Professionals), Museums Copyright Group, >>>> the National Portrait Gallery, Farrer & Co LLP, the Libraries and >>>> Archives Copyright Alliance (LACA) and the Strategic Content > Alliance. >>>> >>>> For further information about the work of MDA, or to interview Nick >>>> Poole, MDA Chief Executive, contact [log in to unmask] or telephone > 01223 415760. >>>> >>>> MDA is supported by the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council > (MLA). >>>> www.mla.gov.uk <http://www.mla.gov.uk> <http://www.mla.gov.uk> >>>> >>>> -- Ends -- >>>> >>>> Eleanor Lovegrove >>>> Marketing Officer >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> >>>> MDA, The Spectrum Building, The Michael Young Centre, Purbeck Road >>>> Cambridge CB2 2PD Tel: 01223 415760 Fax: 01223 415960 >>>> www.mda.org.uk >>>> >>>> Scanned by MailDefender - managed email security from intY - >>>> www.maildefender.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************************** >>>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, >>>> visit the >>> website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk >>>> ************************************************** >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> "Where do you want to SCO today?" >>> >>> [log in to unmask] >>> SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf-eu.org >>> >>> ************************************************** >>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, >>> visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk >>> ************************************************** >>> >>> ************************************************** >>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, >>> visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk >>> ************************************************** >>> >> >> ************************************************** >> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit > >> the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk >> ************************************************** >> > > -- > > "Where do you want to SCO today?" > > [log in to unmask] > SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf-eu.org > > ************************************************** > For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit > the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk > ************************************************** > > ************************************************** > For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk > ************************************************** > -- "Where do you want to SCO today?" 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