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Dear Norm, I agree and wish I'd said th edesign persepctive so well as you did! 'environments may be more effectively addressed as layered relational systems that include many diverse and complex adaptive systems in interconnection.' Great! Sounds like a quote from Bill Mollinson. I'm not convinced, hoiwever, by the trees-earth argument. There are many different plant/soil ecologies besides trees. They each have differring effects on soil health. For example, here to the north of Perth, Western Australia, the dominant natural vegetation is low (>2m) drought resistant shrubs over smaller shrubs, a cactus-like ground cover and light grasses on sand that is slowly building in soil carbon by drawing it out of the air. In times of rain the carbon is washed deeper into the earth securing it. Simialrly in Corsica, there is the Macqui. In many parts of Europe and America there are grass/soil ecologies and shrub-based plant/soil ecologies. Good farms have vigorous soils sequestering CO2. Regardless, essentially trees have zero effect on CO2 sequestration overall. On death they release 100% of what they have stored. In contrast, soil sequestration has the potential to lock up CO2 in a more long term fashion. On this area of design, I think the science is better than the public romanticism. Or should that be 'hidden economic manipulation'? Two 'design' reasons for encouraging trees as a subsidised solution to climate change are their commercial value and their ability to change public dollars into private hands. Best wishes, Terry -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Norm Sheehan Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2007 8:38 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Redesign Dear All I believe that it is a vast and dangerous oversimplification to posit complex adaptive systems as a model for environmental understanding - environments may be more effectively addressed as layered relational systems that include many diverse and complex adaptive systems in interconnection. With all respect the idea that tree planting is not good design because soil is a better C02 repository is not counter intuitive it is absurd ... the kind of scientific absurdity that comes from positing that soil and tree are separate objects with different sequestering values. Trees and soil exist in relation - no trees without soil & without trees soil becomes either airborne or waterborne .... an observable environmental outcome in Australia. Design that seeks to understand and enhance this tree soil relation as a basis for the appropriate relational mix for CO2 impounding in a context is a kind of design that involves research into the relations existing between complex adaptive systems with the aim of developing approaches that enhance such relational patterns. This relational design is apparent in the works of Indigenous theorists such as Greg Cajete and some of the better deep theory texts. Apologies for a grumpy old man tune. Norm. ________________________________ From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design on behalf of Terence Sent: Tue 28/08/2007 7:02 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Redesign Dear Mark, There was a tremendous amount of work done in this area by members of the ECO2-IRN group based at Cranfield during the 1990s (see http://www.mcaloone.com/environment/eco2/intro.htm ) Some of the members of that group are members of this list. My guess is it is still available. Tim MacAloone and Tracy Bhamra were key contacts. Best, Terry -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 10:55 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Redesign Dear Francois, I think a comprehensive literature search and review in the area of component and material reuse would be highly beneficial. I (along with a number of other researchers I know) would be keen to develop such a list. I'd also be keen to know how many other design researchers on the PhD design list are already looking into this area. It would be good to to take the theory and begin to fashion it into a collaborative infrastructure of design practice. Regards, Mark Richardson Francois-Xavier Nsenga <[log in to unmask]> wrote:> Dear Mark, Thank you for sharing the information! It really feels good to see more and more likeminded people around! I have just sent off-list a note to Stella (one of the previous posts) suggesting to form a team that would look into the possibility of a compilation and annotation of available literature on information from users to designers... Would you also be interested to join in? I am very much interested to have a look into your 'redesign' project, and please forward a copy to me after your paper is delivered at the IASDR 07 conference. Kind regards! Francois -- Transport Design Coordinator / Ph.D. candidate Monash University Faculty of Art & Design Department of Design, Industrial Design 900 Dandenong Rd Caulfield East 3145 Victoria, Australia Ph: +61 3 9903 1859 Mob: 0425 726 011