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Jerry Diethelm wrote: >>First make the first half of a Granny or Square knot and then tie a bow. << As one of the appointed judges in this competition I have to rule that Jerry's entry appears to meet the criteria as set out in Ken's last message. Ken's description specifies some things and leaves other things open First he specified a "description". I think Jerry has provided a description of the method. Second Ken has specified that the description should enable "others" to tie their shoelaces Ken has not said "everybody" or "a literate english speaker between the ages of 15 and 70 chosen at random" so I assume we can allow that, as long as SOME others can perform the task his challenge is met. In this case the others would need to be people who understand the concept of tieing a half-granny and bow, probably from some previous experience, and have seen enough laced shoes tied with bows to make the connection. In the old days this would seem impossible as anybody like that would have already learned to tie their shoelaces, but in this modern era of velcro fasteners it is quite possible to reach adulthood without tieing laces. One might then learn the art of tieing bows when employed as a Christmas present wrapper in a department store, perhaps as a holiday job before embarking on a university course in design. As Ken has offered Jerry a meal in Sheffield next year I'd like to recommend Nonna's restaurant in Ecclesall Road. Not only is the food very good but it has big plate glass windows so the rest of us can stand outside and applaud as Jerry eats his way through all the most expensive dishes on the menu. For the rest of you, pick out your evening meal venue at __www.eatsheffield.com_ <file://www.eatsheffield.com> _best wishes from you know where Chris_ _