Thank you Harry.
So that confirms that the new system being proposed for all
deaths with a medical examiner looking into the death and speaking to the
doctors who have attended, the relatives and any nursing staff involved if
appropriate will have to be available 24hours, or at least be around weekends
and bank holidays.
I will feed that back via GPC
Trefor
For people for religious reasons who need to buried within 24 hours of
death, the registrar of births and deaths offers an emergency service for
registration of death out of hours-no one is allowed to be buried without the
paperwork from the registrar of births and deaths. If it is a coroners case then
there is no short cut unless at the discretion of the coroner
Hope that helps
Harry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:25
AM
Subject: Re: Does any religion object to
signing cremation certificates? (GMC consultation)
More importantly about the GMC proposals, if it applies to all
deaths, there
will have to be on call medical referees available at Bank
Holiday weekends
to get the GP to go into the surgery to unlock the notes
so those whose
religion expects burial within 24 hours can have their
wishes adhered to.
Actually, what happens to devout Jews and Moslems
who die after 5 on a
Friday, is the death registered after the
burial????
Trefor
-----Original
Message-----
From: GP-UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mary
Hawking
Sent: 29 August 2007 22:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
Does any religion object to signing cremation certificates?
(GMC
consultation)
Sorry, I started this thread - and the question was about
GPC consultation.
Among other things it stated that doctors should not
refuse to sign
cremation forms because of their own religious or personal
objections to
cremation.
The question was whether there were any
religions who had religious
objections to cremation to the extent that they
would refuse to sign
cremation certificates for those who did not share
their own beliefs.
I could understand the moral issues raised by abortion -
but cremation?
Yet the GMC seemed to think that this was a serious problem
of conscience
for some doctors.
The discussion on this list has been
interesting and enlightening - but
hasn't answered the question which
was:-
*Is* there a serious problem of principle and conscience for doctors
in any
religion in signing cremation certificates for those who do not
share their
beliefs? If so, which religion? And if not, why was it raised
in the GMC
consultation document?
So far, the responses seem to
indicate that although there may be objections
within some religions or
subsets of those religions to cremation for
themselves these are not so
overwhelming that they would refuse to sign them
for relatives of deceased
patients requesting cremation.
Why is the GMC concerned? I can only
assume that somewhere, some time, some
doctor has refused to sign a part B
(the own doctor bit) on religious or
conscience grounds.
Does anyone
know whether this is true?
Mary Hawking
In message <[log in to unmask]>, Dr
Peter von Kaehne
<[log in to unmask]>
writes
>That makes sense. Having said this I find it odd that a totally
private
>matter, neither contractual nor statutory duty, is suddenly
elevated to
>this status. Particularly when there is significant
disquiet about the
>form as such (lnot the matter of cremation) and a
fair number of people
>been on record that the profession could simply
cease to provide this
>form until matters are finally improved. Is this
pre-emptive? Will
>there come a time when filling in of part C is also
obligatory?
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>
>Declan
Fox wrote:
>
>> I can't remember, exactly. But I think it was
me reading the proposed
>> GMC guidance and the forms and thinking
that if I could not give the
>> right answers to allow cremation
then that would mean that there was
>> something _possibly_
suspicious about the death and someone would
>> have to inform the
coroner.
>> Burying the deceased does not seem to be considered a
suitable option
>> by those who have made up their minds to have
him/her cremated and it
>> seems to me that the GMC is taking that
line too---ie if the family
>> want a cremation then the doctor
_has_ to oblige and his only excuse
>> for _not_ obliging is if he
is unable to give the death a clean bill,
>> as it were. In which
case, in these post-Shipman days, that means
>> calling the
coroner.
>>
>> Declan
>>
>>
>>
<<<I still struggle ot understand why lack of crem form should lead
>> to a coroner referral.
>>
>> I always thought
if a crem form can not be signed the body will be
>> enterred and
that is the end of it.
>>
>> How did the coroner come into
it?>>>
>
>
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Hawking
