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Thanks very much Phil- your comments on both the broad and the specific are very helpful, as always. I think what we call the profile still needs thought for the very reasons you mention (it's a thin, modular, partial duck - it only has wings but my goodness they are great wings for teaching and learning). I won't reply in detail to your points because I'll just go "Yeah, yeah". As for my summer, well, it's kinda turning into a Dublin Core Summer: while I am delighted with the response to our draft profile (it's so much better than silence), all you clever folks are giving me more and more work :-) Keep 'em coming, everyone. S. Phil Barker wrote: > Hello Sarah, hope you're having a wonderful summer. Many thanks to you > and your colleagues for sharing this, I have a few comments on the > details of the documents, but first a couple of more general > observations. > > Firstly, I think one of the previous comments or replies mentioned > that this isn't really an application profile as we know it. Indeed, > you make this point yourself in the document, but if you call > something a "thin" duck and then explain that it doesn't walk like a > duck or quack like a duck then you're probably going to have > difficulty communicating what the thing really is. I found it useful > to think of it as a "partial profile", in other words a set of > elements useful for profiles in a particular context. > > Secondly, I think I agree with Andy's comments about the need for an > entity relationship model to support this work. Not (only) because of > any distinction between what we might want to say about > works/expressions/manifestations/items, but because there are a whole > load of other entities implied in the description: learners, > qualifications, "contexts" , and I think it would help clarify > discussion on some elements if we could what they applied to. I think > your discussion of LOM 5.11 education.language is the simplest case > where an entity-relation model that included the learner would help > [language of the resource is not the same as language of the learner > even if it is described by the same DC element], subject is another, > see below. > > Now the minutiae ... > > > In Functional requirements you say > "b. Support for Educational Use of Resources > The DC-Ed AP must support those interested in teaching and learning > (primarily educational practitioners but possibly others) in > determining a resource's potential for use within a given educational > setting." > Is it really the intention to concentrate so specifically on the needs > of teachers (if that is what you mean by educational practitioners) > not learners or parents? it seems a strange limitation in scope for > work at this level. What are the consequences of this? > > > In the intro, you say > "The exception to the focus on educational properties is for Subject > and Type, where the AP intends to suggest vocabularies of specific use > for educational materials." which struck me as odd at first. Then I > read the element definition table where you suggest subject might > describe "A reference to a standard for curriculum, competency or > learning objective to which the resource conforms." So LOM 9 > Classification with 9.1 Classification.Purpose = educational objective > and 9.1 Classification.Purpose = competency would be relevant. I'm > inclined to think that this is different to (or perhaps a significant > refinement of) subject. Seems like DC:relation with conformsTo > refinement is better place for references to such standards. Which > makes me think that this is one of the cases where an entity > relationship model might be useful: your not describing the resource > per se, you're describing the course the student might be on -- that > relationship, not the subject attribute, is education specific. > > Still on the subject row in that table, the wording "DC-Ed AP to > recommend vocabularies in use within educational metadata, e.g. Joint > Academic Coding System (JACS) in the UK." could be taken to mean that > DCMI will recommend that if you're in UK HE then you should use JACS, > which is probably not what you mean. It might be better to say "e.g. > the UK HE Joint Aca...(JACS)" > > > > In the vocab listings: > For LTSN Pedagogic terms you give the LTSN resource type vocabulary, > which is a bit confusing since there was an LTSN pedagogy vocabulary, > which is now the HE Academy pedagogy vocabulary available at > http://www.connect.ac.uk/ixbin/hixltp?_IXACTION_=file&_IXFILE_=templates%2Fvocab%2Ftop.html&_IXthes=Pedagogy > > > For the row heading of TLTP vocabularies you talk about the TLRP vocabs. > > [and if these came directly from the CETIS pedagogy vocabularies > report then I'm deeply embarrassed about not spotting them then.] > > > Hope this helps, Phil. > > ps. the notes I made as I went along are available at > http://www.google.com/notebook/public/16007482002381607562/BDQTGQgoQtpbh88Ui?hl=en > <http://www.google.com/notebook/public/16007482002381607562/BDQTGQgoQtpbh88Ui?hl=en> > > which has a little more detail in places. > > Sarah Currier wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> The Dublin Core Conference 2007 in Singapore is fast approaching. >> The next face-to-face meeting of the DC-Ed Community will take place >> there. >> >> Diane Hillmann, Stuart Sutton and I have been working hard to get >> draft materials related to the proposed DC-Ed Application Profile >> ready for this meeting. We would like to disseminate the results of >> this work prior to the meeting so that anyone who can't attend can >> give feedback and input. We'd be very grateful if you could spend >> some time having a look and feeding back to us. Discussion on this >> list is particularly welcome. If you only have time to look at the >> areas that particularly interest you, that's fine! I have tried to >> delineate the different areas we'd like feedback on below, to make it >> easier for you. >> >> We now have a wiki page linking to a new draft Application Profile >> document: >> http://dublincore.org/educationwiki/Working_20Draft_20of_20DC_2dEd_20Application_20Profile >> >> >> -- >> Sarah Currier >> Co-Moderator, Dublin Core Education Community >> >> Product Manager, Intrallect Ltd. >> http://www.intrallect.com >> >> 2nd Floor, Regent House >> Blackness Road >> Linlithgow >> EH49 7HU >> United Kingdom >> >> Tel: +44 870 234 3933 Mob: +44 (0)7980855801 >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] -- >> >> -- >> Sarah Currier >> Product Manager, Intrallect Ltd. >> http://www.intrallect.com >> >> 2nd Floor, Regent House >> Blackness Road >> Linlithgow >> EH49 7HU >> United Kingdom >> >> Tel: +44 870 234 3933 Mob: +44 (0)7980855801 >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] -- -- Sarah Currier Product Manager, Intrallect Ltd. http://www.intrallect.com 2nd Floor, Regent House Blackness Road Linlithgow EH49 7HU United Kingdom Tel: +44 870 234 3933 Mob: +44 (0)7980855801 E-mail: [log in to unmask] --