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It's not a case of fear of the private sector; what a ludicrously simplistic argument. Since people seem to be missing the point I made I'll reiterate it again. The public librarian is THE trusted intermediary for the users. Tampering with that changes the relationship completely. Some may argue this is a good thing, others like me would argue it is not. Can we at least have an adult debate about it and use evidence rather than political expediency as our motivator? Public libraries have worked with the private sector since they were set up. They've always bought materials for users. They've done a damned good job of it too. Values play a crucial part in that success, and if we've to move to more private sector involvement we need to have serious professional debates about why we are doing it, what impact this will have on the inherent values of the sector, and the potential it has for altering the relationship between user and service. Blind faith is not the way to develop a national institution. > Absolutely spot on and well said > > we really must move to better understand and not be afraid of the > private sector., we must all work together to get the best deal for our > users/clients/customers. > > thanks you Dan > f > > ________________________________ > > From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dan Holmes > Sent: 20 July 2007 11:06 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > > So many confusions..... > > I work in trade - not materials supply but LMS supply. I am no more > directly responsible to the shareholders/owners of my company than your > subordinates. Robert, are directly responsible to elected members; I AM > responsible to our customers, my colleagues and management for the > quality of the job I do. Businesses of all kinds survive and prosper > only if they get it right - that means delivering what the customer > requires at a cost the customer can afford and that enables the business > to keep going. Sometimes we do get it wrong - but do you, publicly > funded bodies, always get it right? I doubt it or this thread would not > exist. As for changing priorities - it is in fact easier for a public > body such as a local authority, with its regular change of elected > members, to change its priorities (often rapidly and unpredictably) than > it is for an established business, supplying a well established service > to a well established customer base, to change its priorities - business > simply doesn't work like that. > > In the end where the skills are is not the point - libraries have done a > terrific job over the years of exporting the basic skills of > librarianship to the private sector in the name of saving public money - > it's how they are deployed that counts. > > Dan Holmes > > Dan Holmes | Library Sales | UK Library Division | Infor | direct: 0044 > 1454 892212 | fax: 0044 870 4214095 | [log in to unmask] > <blocked::blocked::mailto:[log in to unmask]> | 2 Westpoint Row | > Great Park Road | Bradley Stoke | Bristol | BS32 4QG > > > ________________________________ > > From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Clayton > Sent: 20 July 2007 10:24 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > > Dear All > > Apologies for another "witter".... > > I think we are agreed on why librarians need to be involved. The issue > I am uneasy about, as David raised, is who they work for - the public or > the shareholders. I can quite clearly see a case for wider buying > consortia than is currently carried out for single authorities, or small > authority groupings. The problem I have is when you transfer that > expertise from authority control to private sector control. > > With the massive changes and consolidations in the supplier side we are > experiencing, are we really confident the skills outlined below will be > maintained by our suppliers? I can argue effectively within my > authority and my regional colleagues for the value of these skills, but > once they are transferred to the private sector, all it takes is a buy > out or a change in Chief Executive to alter the business priorities. I > don't know whether THE's buyout by Woolworths will make a significant > difference to the way they work, but as it COULD easily make a dramatic > difference I'd prefer to keep the experienced staff within my authority > / group of authorities. And when a major supplier shuts down (I don't > need to list all of those that have) - would we have capacity to buy the > expertise back in house? > > "I don't see why the skilled librarian shouldn't work in the book > suppliers" - Many do, and do an excellent job - but I want someone > accountable to me and my elected members choosing stock - not > necessarily directly, through a consortium is fine - but paid for and > responsible to me. > > "how much difference would there be in the stock." - An argument for > greater consortia buying, not necessarily for supplier selection in my > view. > > "This is a logistic and economic need to improve the efficiency and > scope of the public library. We must move on, not witter on" - > Absolutely agree we need to be more efficient, but please let's not call > debate "wittering" - exchanging views is what this list should surely be > about! I agree on the need to change, but not the means. > > Supplier selection is something I'm happy to see trialled in a number of > authorities. Some will have good experiences, as Leeds say. Others > will not. I don't believe the case for wholesale transfer of the entire > country to the system has been made. > > But, of course, these are just my views. > > > Robert Clayton > County Librarian > Rutland Library Service > Tel: 01572 722626 > Fax: 01572 724906 > Email: [log in to unmask] > Web: www.rutland.gov.uk/libraries > Post: Oakham Library, Catmos Street, Oakham, Rutland, LE15 6HW > > >>>> Frances Hendrix <[log in to unmask]> 20/07/2007 09:56 >>>> > > I don't see why the skilled librarian shouldn't work in the book > suppliers rather than in one of the whole number of libraries and > authority has. > > I wonder, if you did a comparison of all public libraries, and compared > the core stock, excluding the collections purchased for communities or > users with special requirements, e.g. visual impairment, minority ethnic > groups, how much difference would there be in the stock. > > what libraries have to do, in order to run any really good service, is > know the social makeup of their communities round each of their > libraries, e.g. age, ethnicity,educational attainment, employment etc., > all this, plus historical patterns of use, could enable a skilled > librarian working for a supplier to get c 80% of the selection done and > sent ready processed direct to a branch? > > This is a logistic and economic need to improve the efficiency and scope > of the public library. We must move on, not witter on > f > > ________________________________ > > From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David McMenemy > Sent: 19 July 2007 18:06 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > > > Can I suggest some issues for "debate" here? > > > > 1. The public librarian is the trusted and impartial intermediary > between the public and the service. Selection of materials is a crucial > aspect of the social contract between the library service and the > public. For the private sector to be part of that at the selection > process (no matter how politically expedient under current government's > obsessions) changes that relationship. To put it simply, the company > has responsibilities to its shareholders, the librarian has > responsibility to its public. In that scenario I know who I want > picking my books for me. I know this is a minor point for the > managerialists amongst our population, but the values that underpin the > profession are not the values that underpin library suppliers. Why > are we so quick to bin the very values that have served us well for 150 > years? That was rhetorical, because I think I know the answer. > > > > 2. If you remove the professional roles of librarians (or attempt to > devalue them by suggesting they can be done by machines and corporations > who have no contact with or understanding of the communities they serve) > then it is naive to think that there is much future for a professional > library service. Maybe that's the point though? Or am I being > old-fashioned and cynical? > > > > Best, > > David > > > > ________________________________ > > From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frances Hendrix > Sent: 19 July 2007 14:20 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > > > Hi David > > > > an interesting and full response > > > > In fact what I was thinking as I read it came out from your reply > towards the end. i.e. why not move the expertise of the librarian, > whether in print or non print stock, to the supplier. What the library > needs to provide is the profile of the communities they cover, along > with some management information form the LMS on what is in demand, > popular etc, and some demographic information. Then someone of your > uncountable specialist knowledge can provide that to ALL public > libraries nationally., freeing up librarians at the local library to do > other innovate things, promote services, get those old and little or > never used items out of store to promote, push Interlending for > specialist areas, and a host of other innovate services. > > > > Sounds good to me, as the libraries would all benefit form people with > your skills and knowledge > > > > f > > > > ________________________________ > > From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Cawthorne > Sent: 19 July 2007 13:31 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > SUPPLIER SELECTION > > Audio Visual Stock > > > > I thought I would add my comments "For What its Worth" as Stills wrote > in Buffalo Springfield back in the mists of time. > > This is a long reply but stick with it as its worth it... > > > > I am a librarian and have worked in libraries from 1972 until October > 2006. The last 21 years were in Somerset County Council based in Taunton > Library. The last 16 years of which included responsibility for all > audio visual services across all the libraries in Somerset. I > established and built up the VHS collections and DVD collections and > developed the Music CD and spoken word collections and generated a lot > of income for the authority. > > Music and movies have interested me all my life and I was able to bring > my interest and enthusiasm and knowledge to bear on developing these > audio visual collections for the residents of Somerset. > > Never during any of that time would I have considered "supplier > selection" as the way to best stock these collections. I therefore fully > appreciate and understand the comments made by my professional > colleagues Garry Gale in Edinburgh and Frances Hendrix in LASER where > they dismiss supplier selection in a most amusing way. > > It is gratifying to see that there is still some belief in the > importance of stock selection as a significant part of a job of the > librarian. > > > > "Things Have Changed" as Bob Dylan sang in the Wonder Boys > > > > However it is now often the case that as a result of budget cuts and > service restructuring, librarians and library managers are being forced > to consider and use stock that is selected and supplied by library > suppliers. > > They do not have the time to select the way they used to and do not have > time to keep abreast of the market. > > Supplier selection has been going on for many years as far as book > supply is concerned and it is becoming more common now with audio visual > stock. Staff, with the knowledge and enthusiasm of Garry and Frances, > are becoming rare in public libraries. > > > > I believe supplier selection will start to become the normal method of > stock purchasing of audio visual stock in the very near future. In fact > the last four audio visual tenders that Library Multimedia have received > have specified that supplier selection will be required. > > > > Also in the MLA Report Better Stock Better Libraries they cover > Selection of stock - "should be done using the expertise of suppliers or > other third parties to ensure that industry knowledge and specialisation > is harnessed effectively to identify the best new and 'refresh' stock to > meet local needs" > > > > However Geoff Stokes raises a very real concern about supplier > selection, and that is the view that the supplier was selecting the > wrong stock. > > This happens for a number of reasons > > * The A/V supplier has no detailed knowledge of public library > requirements and selects as though they would for a video shop > > * Some film studios offer greater margins than others thus > tempting the supplier to let this affect their selection of choices > > * Some suppliers own their own labels and thus invariably > include these titles in their selections despite the fact that they are > unsuitable for public libraries > > * Suppliers are often offered "incentives" on some titles and > may allow this to affect their selections for public libraries. > > * Library Multimedia only supply public libraries and not the > private sector rental outlets, so our knowledge of libraries' > requirements is much greater that other suppliers who see libraries as a > "soft sell" to "nice people" who always pay their bills on time! > > > > Since October 2006 I have worked with Gary Green (who I have consulted > in composing this reply) for an audio visual supplier called Library > Multimedia and yes we do offer supplier support and supplier selection > if it is required. The expertise of Library Multimedia to select stock > is already used by a number of authorities for audio visual materials. > > We also offer ideas on promoting the service and displaying the stock > items and creating interest in the collections. > > We do not take on the role of supplier selection lightly and only do > this on behalf of the local authority after full consultation with the > authority staff involved. A "stock selection profile" and monthly spend > (from the annual budget) is worked out and this coupled with a good > knowledge of what is available in the market place helps provide the > range of stock that the library authority needs. When a supplier is > allowed to select stock, the local authority customer should evaluate > and hold to account that supplier at least twice a year to prove that > they are always working in the best interests of the customer. It is > crucial that a bond of trust exists between the local authority and the > supplier because if this does not exist the system will (and in fact > already is) open to abuse. > > > > To give a recent example of good stock selection, Library Multimedia > took over from another supplier (guess who) to select stock for Wrexham > Libraries and these were the results gained by responsible and > professional supplier selection: - > > > > DVD ISSUES > > 2006/7 2007/8 VARIANCE > % VARIANCE > > APRIL 312 705 393 > 126% > > MAY 197 652 455 > 455% > > JUNE 197 783 586 > 297.5% > > > > QUARTER 1 706 2140 1434 > 203% > > > > This turnaround was achieved immediately Library Multimedia were given > the go ahead to select, market and promote the service. There is strong > evidence to support the theory that much of this growth was down to new > people joining. This is not "rocket science" but was helped by this > Authority having strong and enthusiastic management who wanted to work > with us to make a difference in their service. > > > > The main principle in stock selection for audio visual materials is to > purchase stock that will meet customer's expectations, help expand their > music and or viewing interests, and for them to borrow and enjoy while > at the same time generating a good level of income for the authority. > > I can now use the experience l gained in Somerset Libraries, and the > fact that I keep myself up to date with the market for DVD and Music CD > releases, to help colleagues in other authorities with their stock > selection needs. I have helped a good number of authorities in this way > and only this morning got another request from Ben Wallis in Bristol > Libraries to pick stock for the third refurbished library in the city > this year. He is very happy with how the other two collections are > going. > > And yes before you ask, Library Multimedia is the supplier for Somerset > Library Service (as part of Libraries West Consortium) and I carry out > supplier selection of DVDs on their behalf as I did when I worked for > them. > > > > David Cawthorne > > Library Multimedia > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "stokes, geoff" <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Tuesday, 3 July, 2007 11:53:23 AM > Subject: Audio Visual Supplier Selection > > Hi Everyone, > > I haven't subscribed to lis-pub-libs for a while (it was clogging up my > inbox, but now I've got higher storage so I've reactivated it) so this > subject may well have already been discussed extensively before. > However, I was wondering what experience you have had with A/V supplier > selection. I've dabbled with it a bit over the last few years, getting > Golds to send me X number of PS2 new games releases and Bollywood DVDs > each month. However, feedback I have had from customers and staff, plus > issue figures, lead me to believe we weren't necessarily getting the > right titles. I currently don't have any A/V selected by our suppliers. > I was wondering if any of you have some or all of your A/V stock chosen > for you by your suppliers and any problems and/or benefits that are > associated with this method of stock procurement. > > Geoff Stokes > Community Librarian > Chatham Library > Gun Wharf > CHATHAM > ME4 4TX > > 01634 337356 > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > Rutland County Council > Customer Service Centre: 01572 722 577 [log in to unmask] > Council Website: http://www.rutland.gov.uk > Community Portal: http://www.rutnet.co.uk > The views expressed in this email are those of the author and may not > be official policy. > Internet email should not be treated as a secure form of communication. > Please notify the sender if received in error. > >