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Dear Nicole, this is very interesting that there is no pinus - it also explains what now comes to my mind again: I can´t remember to have seen a lot of heartwood in the samples I was shown... But then Beas question arises again: I´ve read that these splinters work so well because of the high amount of resin. But Abies doesn´t have awful amounts of resin, does it? So has anybody an idea why it still works? Or were they really treated with some kind of fuel? Niels > Dear Bea , Dear Niels > > We also can confirm your observation on salt preserved Material. Cheapest > and best preservation for organic materials from salt mines is no > conservation. At Dürrnberg/Hallein, Austria I examined some thousands of > wooden objects and even small seeds and fruit remains from faeces, which > stay well preserved only because of the high content of salt. Even after > short a time of washing or watering the objects they still contain salt. It > needs a longer time in the rain/under the shower to remove it completely. So > a moderate humidity shouldn’t be a problem. > At the moment it is tried to store some timbers from a wet preservation site > in not used mine shafts of the modern salt mine to avert the decay of the > wood. But of course there are no long term observations until know. And for > sure not everywhere a salt mine is available : ) > > One small comment concerning the so called “Kienspäne”. I was very > surprised when I started the wood analysis on the Dürrnberg material several > years ago. In opposite to the etymological origin of the word Kienspäne > which Niels already described (Kienspäne = lightning tapers from Pinus), > none of the ancient lightning tapers had been made from Pinus. The Iron age > people used Abies alba and Picea abies/Larix decidua over there. Pinus is > not very common in the local vegetation. > > > Best wishes > Nicole > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Nicole Boenke M.A. > Archäologische&Archäobotanische Untersuchungen > Herawies 42 > A-6723 Blons > > 0043 (0)5553 21426 > [log in to unmask] > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: The archaeobotany mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im > Auftrag von Beatrice Hopkinson > Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Juli 2007 20:57 > An: [log in to unmask] > Betreff: Re: TBA Hallstatt > > Niels, > > Thank you for refreshing my memory about 'pinus' wood. It does have > a > splintery look to it too. Of course I figured it was the salt that is > preserving it > but wanted an experts thoughts. I'm a little biased about salt as you > may have > guessed :) > > Yes I recall the rucksack and the hat! And a colleague of mine used > the > records at Hallstatt to dye and weave some fabric to duplicate remains of > fabric > found on the handle of a pick (?). It turned out to be a green and > black tartan, a > sample of which she gave me. I was somewhat startled to find someone > else had > done this - but the tartan is red! Do you know anything of that? The > tourist aspect at Hallstatt has changed much since I was there in 1979! > > Bea > > >This is an effect of the salt. All organic remains from that mine are > >perfectly preserved. I once examined a rucksack that was found there made > >of leather. You could use it without being careful. I wouldn´t hesitate to > >build a house from the timber there. There is no need to protect the wood > >>from water - the salt has prevented any decay so you can extract the salt > >and the item will still not change more than any modern piece of wood! > >The wood is pinus. The german word "kiefer" comes from "kien" meaning > >lighting-splinter and latin "ferre". It has a high amount of natural > >resin. You don´t have to add extra-fuel. It was used for light until at > >least early modern times. > >I am not quite sure whether every pinus-wood works equally well - a case > >for experimental work ... > >Niels > > > > > >> Just as a matter of interest - I was many years ago given a piece of salt > > >> saturated > >> wood from the Hallstatt mine. It was used to light the way for the > >> miners. I looked > >> at it about 2 years ago and it was unchanged - is it the salt, or perhaps > > >> the fuel it was > >> dipped into to light it that has preserved it? I can't smell any odor or > > >> see signs of > >> fuel - I am wondering if it was a special kind of wood they chose that > >> will naturally burn and of course the salt that has prevented decay (its > >> just wrapped up in a paper towel) ? > >> I'd have thought over the years it might have absorbed water from the > >> atmosphere - though perhaps the paper towel prevented it! > >> > >> Bea > >> > >> >As to the wooden vat: There are many ways of conserving waterlogged > wood. > >> >Soaking it in Sugar, PEG or Melamin-resin or freeze-drying are just the > >> >best known. Every method has its own problems and advantages. Sugar and > >> >PEG leave the sample in constant danger of humidity, but it is at least > >> >theoretically reversible. Melamin-conservation as used in the > >> >Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum in Mainz has great results, yields a > >> >strong and light sample that won´t change the color any further and is > >> >tolerant of changing air-conditions etc. but it is irreversible. In > >> >contrast to PEG it is invisible even under the microscope while PEG > fills > >> >the vessels. PEG-samples are also quite heavy which makes it difficult > to > >> >mount samples for restauration and presentation. > >> >If waterlogged wood is just to be kept some years for later analysis it > is > >> >best to use the same plastic-bag-method as for the soil-samples. A > simple > >> >basin can be used to improvise a vacuum in the bag. It is possible to ad > > >> >some fungicide, but it appears to be unnecessary. The problem is: > >> >Obviously the soil-chemistry and the species will also influence the > >> >result. I have seen wood-samples of ash from a bog that were in bad > >> >condition after 12 years and oak from a lake that were in great > condition > >> >after 25 years... > >> >Hope this helps. > >> >Good Luck > >> >Niels > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> Greenwich Museum in England some years ago preserved a Roman wooden > >> >> vat excavated in the 1980's. They soaked it in some liquid for some > >> >> months with the > >> >> result was it changed its appearance and is now black. I would have > > >> >> thought there was > >> >> a better way to preserve it - but then I am not a conservation expert. > > I > >> >> feel it has so changed its appearance that over time it might be > thought > >> >> that it was how it looked originally and could be confusing. > >> >> > >> >> Beatrice Hopkinson > >> >> > >> >> >Dear colleagues, > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >I am writing with a question relating to the long-term storage of > >> >> >waterlogged deposits. A colleague here in Ireland, Christina > Fredengren, > >> has > >> >> >been excavating an important Late Mesolithic lakeside site (further > >> >> >information available at www.discoveryprogramme.ie - see Lake > Settlement > >> >> >Project section). Many of the deposits at the site are waterlogged. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Christina took many soil samples during the excavation, and it now > seems > >> >> >that there are a number of samples that will not be examined in the > near > >> >> >future. A museum here in Ireland is interested in storing these > >unexamined > >> >> >samples, possibly for analysis at some time in future decades. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >I am looking for advice on current best practice for long-term > storage > of > >> >> >waterlogged samples. Would it be better to store the soil samples > >> >> >'untouched', or can we sieve them to reduce their mass? Any advice on > > the > >> >> >addition of water/alcohol/other materials to enable preservation of > the > >> >> >waterlogged remains would also be appreciated. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >Best wishes, > >> >> > > >> >> >Meriel McClatchie. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Niels Bleicher > >> >Textorstr. 97 > >> >60596 Frankfurt > >> >Tel.: 069 66124984 > >> >mobil: 0177-2349074 > -- Niels Bleicher Textorstr. 97 60596 Frankfurt Tel.: 069 66124984 mobil: 0177-2349074