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I tried "tine" and "tyne" in EEBO and got hundreds of hits. Someday I'll learn better how to control those searches. A lot of Newcastle on Ti/yne. But indeed the OED seems to me to be very useful--with "tine" as enclose, hedge in, it. To fix and tine the moon would suggest the arrogance or at least the futility of telling Cynthia to stop, behave. You are a saucy wretch if not anctually a pedant, if you think you can tell the busy old fool, unruly moon, to stop moving (and maybe stop having phases). Anyway, my vote is for "enclose" or a synonym. The moon will not be fixed--made to stop and maybe made to stop being so mutable--nor limited/roped in/enclosed/restrained. Tine as a noun, of course, goes with that recent Italian import the fork--there's a passage in some Elizabethan satire about putting your victims on a fork's tines. Not relelvant here, of course. Anne P. > The suggestion that "fix" means "stop" might draw some support from a > possibly parallel usage by Milton in a cryptic little poem (just 2 lines > long) he jotted on the back of a letter sent him by Henry Lawes, enclosing > his passport, before he embarked on his Italian journey in 1638: > > Fix here ye overdated spheres > That wing the restless foot of time. > > Such commentary as this mysterious little poem has provoked has tended to > focus on the meaning of "overdated" (which seems to be Milton's coinage, > whatever it means). I wonder if "tine" in "fix and tine the moon" might > mean "tie" in the sense "bind." This might seem far from alchemy, but > Milton refers to alchemical binding in PL 3.600-605, where alchemists > "bind > / Volatile Hermes" (the element mercury) and "call up unbound / In various > shapes old Proteus from the sea". If memory serves me right, alchemical > binding means the removing of air (a volatile element) from common mercury > to make "philosophic mercury"--a necessary step toward the making of the > elixir and philosopher's stone. I have no idea as to how or whether the > moon might be relevant to all this. Milton in PL is talking about the > sun. > > John Leonard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James C. Nohrnberg" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:19 PM > Subject: Re: John Dee and Alan Moore > > >> All of the suggestions are good. The phrase, "fix and tine the moon" >> sounds Jonsonian, as kind of pseudo-scientific cant. Especially if the >> moon is the Virgin Queen Belphoebe/Cynthia, whose horoscope Dee could >> well >> have cast. For Dr. Dee did in fact fix the day--i.e., an ideally >> propitious one--for Elizabeth's coronation. Of course the attempt to >> e-fix the moon on the tines of an alchemical-astrological toasting-fork >> re-makes the point about Dee--a mathematician, astrologer, geographer, >> astronomer (I guess), medicine man, alchemist-ry student (alchemists >> "fix" >> metals in states that are nearer than normal to gold, and work with >> "tincting" to do this--the moon is not a metal, but it stands for >> silver, >> and thus for quick-silver or mercury, as the sun stands for gold and >> thus >> for sulphur). Burghley urged Dee to come home from the Continent and >> turn >> base metal into gold to pay for the expenses of England's taking on the >> Armada. I.e, Dee could hardly help being reputed a magician. >> Magicians, >> like Mutability, can molest and arrest the moon, or predict and produce >> eclipses (compare the powers of Job's curse or spell on the day and the >> night in 3:3-10). >> >> On Mon, 14 May 2007 10:10:56 -0600 >> Katherine Eggert <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> Dear Charlie, >>> >>> There's a chance this might be astrological rather than alchemical. >>> You >>> "fix" the moon (and the planets etc.) as part of doing an astrological >>> chart. If "tine" is not a misprint, it's pretty much a synonym for >>> "fix" >>> (tine=enclose). An EEBO-TCP search of "fix" near "moon" gives you this >>> reference: >>> >>> Title: The five books of Mr. Manilius containing a system of the >>> ancient >>> astronomy and astrology : together with the philosophy of the Stoicks >>> Author: Manilius, Marcus. >>> Publication Info: London : [s.n.], 1700. >>> For Instance,* grant it were thy great Concern >>> To know the 28 Planet's Twelfths; securely learn; >>> I'll shew the Method: As you count the Signs, >>>First mark that Sign's Degree where Phoebe shine >>> And views the new-born Child; that multiply >>> By Twelve: (because Twelve Signs adorn the Sky) >>> Observe the Product, and from thence assign >>> To those gay Stars where Phaebe's found to shine >>> Thrice ten Degrees: Then go in Order on, >>> Assigning Thirty till the Number's done; >>> And where the Number ends there fix the Moon: Page 78 >>> That is her Twelfth. (p. 77) >>> >>> Dee did some famous astrological charts -- I seem to remember he did >>> one >>> for Queen Elizabeth that she refused to see! -- so you could pay him to >>> learn how to do that, too. >>> >>> Best, >>> Katherine >>> >>> >>> Katherine Eggert >>> Associate Professor and Chair >>> Department of English >>> University of Colorado >>> 226 UCB >>> Boulder, CO 80309-0226 >>> (303) 492-7382 >>> [log in to unmask] >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Charles Butler To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, >>> May >>> 14, 2007 3:25 AM >>> Subject: Re: John Dee and Alan Moore >>> >>> >>> Thanks to Penny and Laurie. I've had a look at the Glasgow web site, >>> and >>> at first glance it seems very possible that 'tine' may be a misprint >>> (or >>> misreading) for 'tinge' or 'ting' - which would make sense in an >>> alchemical context, should one wish to create the Philosopher's Stone. >>> Which is the kind of thing people would pay money to Doctor Dee to >>> learn >>> how to do, I guess! Charlie >>> >>> -- >>> Website: www.charlesbutler.co.uk >> >> [log in to unmask] >> James Nohrnberg >> Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 >> Univ. of Virginia >> P.O Box 400121 >> Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121 >> >