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Yes, and Spenser uses the older form, but the newer form Gogmagog was, as I recall, also available. In any case "Gog" as a tribe or area or personification or whatever is an ancient enemy. The two giants "Gog" and "Magog" that stood (stand) near the Guildhall have modern names--originally there was Gogmagog and his slayer Corineus. Or so I recall from doing "giants" for the Spenser Encyc. Anne. On May 30, 2007, at 12:16 PM, James C. Nohrnberg wrote: > Except there's an old form Goemagot. > > The shift (of accentual emphasis) to the antepenult seems to occur > with an increase in familiarity (or within a knowing in-group) and > a will-to-an-economical-acceleration: I've seen it happen with New > Haven and and even paper-bag. There is of course a possible > difference in meaning: "The Faerie QUEENE" says that the Queen > (i.e., of England) is a racially a fairy, while "The FAERie queen" > says that the queen meant is the particular one that is the monarch > of the fairies (and not, say, the Queen of Scots). > > On Wed, 30 May 2007 11:50:46 -0400 > anne prescott <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> A fascinating text--it includes a foldout, as I recall, with a >> "bees madrigal" or swarming song. Linda Austern tells me it's >> famous in musicological circles because the words in the madrigal >> are "bzzzz bzzzz" etc. I like Charlie's namesake also because he >> notes that the ruler is female and that those (e.g. Aristotle?) >> who refer to a bees' king are just . . . and then he uses a word >> I can't remember but we would say "sexist." Right on. >> As for "Furry Queene" I've noticed an interesting >> generational shift. I say "Faerie Queene" giving both words an >> equal stress; I've noticed that a great many younger scholars (OK, >> OK, most are younger than I am these days) say "FAErie Queene." >> Fascinating to see such things evolve. There's also a difference >> between folks who say "or-gog-lio" and those who say "or-goh- >> lio"--I go for the latter, being so snobby and wanting to show >> I've been to Italy, but I'm not sure Spenser did. After all the >> (to my snooty ear) less sophisticated pronunciation has "Gog" in >> the middle, which goes with giants, being part of "Gogmagog," or >> at least with (in the Bible) God's enemies. Anne P. >> On May 30, 2007, at 2:37 AM, Charles Butler wrote: >>> Then there's my namesake's *The Feminine Monarchie. Or a >>> Treatise Concerning Bees, and the due ordering of them* (1609) - >>> which does sound rather like an apiarist's *FQ*. >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> >>> On 30/05/07, James C. Nohrnberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> An early design for the cover of AnFQ was suggested by Darcy >>> Thompson's On >>> Growth and Form re the hexagonal structures of the honeycomb >>> (which are >>> dictated like the pattern of crated oranges and some forms of >>> rose windows >>> in mediaeval cathedrals). >>> >>> On Tue, 29 May 2007 20:17:04 +0100 >>> [log in to unmask] wrote: >>> > It's not exactly a nickname but when I was lectured to by the >>> late Dr >>> > Thomas Matheson of the Shakespeare Institute of Birmingham >>> University, I >>> > recall that he had a residual Liverpudlian accent. Hence he >>> referred to >>> > The Furry Queene, or perhaps it was The Furrie Queene. Anyway, >>> for me it >>> > evoked the image of a large Queen Bumble Bee. >>> > >>> > Best wishes, >>> > >>> > Richard Ramsey >>> >>> [log in to unmask] >>> James Nohrnberg >>> Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 >>> Univ. of Virginia >>> P.O Box 400121 >>> Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Website: www.charlesbutler.co.uk > > [log in to unmask] > James Nohrnberg > Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 > Univ. of Virginia > P.O Box 400121 > Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121