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Any chance of giving somebody the last word in this increasingly sour and sterile exchange? I nominate Orwell: "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four." Of course, some will use freedom to say that two plus two make five, but that is not Orwell's point. "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." (Nineteen Eighty-four, Ch. 7) regards, Hugh Aldersey-Williams Spratt's Green House Aylsham, Norfolk NR11 6TX +44 (0) 1263 735670 http://www.hughalderseywilliams.com >On 29 Apr 2007, at 17:35, Bob Ward wrote: > >>Sorry Alice, I don't think it is quite that eaasy to reconcile the >>two points of view that David and I have expressed. I am not only >>making a point about misrepresentations of people's views, I am >>also reacting against the assertion that people have the right to >>use the media to disseminate falsehoods about scientific evidence. >> > Bob, surely this position is too strong? > > >Of course, freedom of speech gives people the right to disseminate >falsehoods about scientific evidence in the media - that's part of >what free speech is all about, namely saying what you think without >fear of retribution from the authorities. > >People have an absolute right to say what they believe the >scientific evidence on any matter is, even if that belief turns out >to be false. The statement "I beleive that X " is, after all, a >statement about the speaker's state of mind as much as about X. We >have to take it on trust that statements about someone's state of >mind are true because this is often rather hard to asses from >externally avaliable evidence. > >What people should not be doing is to DELIBERATELY misrepresent or >to selectively present scientific evidence in support of an >essentially political position, which is what the Climate Change >Deniers routinely do. However, if we believe in free speech we >should not be in the business of suppressing maliciously false >statements, but of exposing their mendacity through our own freedom >to speak. > > >Regards > > > > >Richard Ellam >L M Interactive >3 Winterfield Road >Paulton >BRISTOL >BS39 7RF > >tel/fax 01761 412 797 > ><mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask] > > > >********************************************************************** >1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, >send an email to [log in to unmask] with the following message: >set psci-com nomail 2. To resume email from the list, send the >following message: set psci-com mail 3. To leave psci-com, send an >email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com 4. >Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including >list archive, can be found at the list web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html 5. The psci-com >gateway to internet resources on science communication and science >and society can be found at http://psci-com.ac.uk >********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail 2. To resume email from the list, send the following message: set psci-com mail 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com 4. Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html 5. The psci-com gateway to internet resources on science communication and science and society can be found at http://psci-com.ac.uk **********************************************************************