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> If it wasn't the reason, how can it be the intention? I think I suggested it was not (a tourism site) that constituted the cemetary's original "intention" or "reason." It's current status in the public imagination trumps origins - much in way contemporary Yosemite as a Park trumps it's original function and power among its original local Indian uses. Whether or not the Lachaise is besieged or not with visitors, the cemetery is clearly both a national and international site in the literary, artistic, and theatrical imagination of France. Memoirs and novels, etc. are ripe with visitations to x, y, and z - that act as touchstones for re-enacting lives and remembrances from the most melodramatic sort to those much more profound. France as a cultural memorial preserve (with all of its attendant industries that serve and profit from exploiting this memory) is certainly proud, on whatever level, to 'own' it. I know them well enough to know they don't miss a beat. The chauvinistic cart is never far from the hearse. I cannot think of anything -cemetery wise for artists - that is comparable in the U.S.A. Except the one out there in the Hamptons with Pollack, Stuart Davis and other, primarily New York artists. A good one, I found, to visit, too. Otherwise, Mark, I appreciate all the info about Paris cemeteries in your post. Much of it new to me. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > A few other correctives. The great cemeteries of > Paris were the result of urbanization--as the > population density increased the churchyards > became more valuable, so the bodies were > transferred. There was also concern about > sanitation (there are I think only two of the > older cemeteries that survive--the churchyard in > Menilmontant, and the convent where the victims > of the Terror were buried). In no sense are they > national cemeteries--the closest Paris has to > that are the Pantheon, with a couple of dozen > notables, like Voltaire, the Invalides, with > Napoleon and some of his generals, and the > cathedral of Saint Denis, with most of the kings. > Pere Lachaise is just a cemetery--the vast > majority of those buried there were ordinary > folks. A great many are in fact cremated, > including Isidora Duncan. She rests, like the > others, in a wall niche, which seems to be what > most people do with the ashes of loved ones, except in Hollywood movies. > > The cemeteries were also built as parks, like > Brooklyn's Greenwood Cemetery, at a time when > urban space wasn't being routinely set aside for > greenery and the royal parks were still royal. It > wasn't tourists who were expected to stroll > there, but locals. Last I was there they didn't > sell tickets. Except on national holidays > (especially Armistice Day) they're not very > crowded, except for the vicinity of Jim Morrison. > Pere Lachaise is unique in the volume of its > tourist traffic--usually the Montparnasse, which > I lived a block away from for a few months, is > deserted except for folks taking a shortcut or a > neighborhood stroll. Not a tour bus in sight. > Lots of famous dead, though. Likewise the Montmartre and Passy cemeteries. > > After the fall of the 1871 commune a couple of > thousand communards were lined up against the > north wall of Pere Lachaise and shot. I don't > remember if there's a plaque. Another use for open space. > > In the year that I lived five blocks from Pere > Lachaise I went in once, on Armistice Day. > > Do you really think that large numbers of people > come to Paris for the cemeteries? The only place > that might be true of is the Nile Valley. > > Mark > > At 05:28 PM 3/31/2007, you wrote: >> Anny, the cynic and once Francophile in me wants to say that early on the >> French Government, it appears, was into marketing - putting or burying fame >> all in one place and then making it into a global destination target! >> Certainly that was not the original reason why much of Frances cultural >> wealth got buried in the same place. But a tourist economy trumps all other >> intentions, I suspect, and so France has discovered another level of >> mortuary meaning. >> (Somebody recently said that if Tourism were a country, it would be the >> third or fourth largest in the world!) >> >> I also suspect there are the families of both famous and/or not who prefer >> cremation - inaccessibility of remains becomes a virtue. Or, if you are >> really interested, read the books or look at the art of the beloved >> deceased. >> >> Yet, to contradict, I love the Vietnam Memorial as a site of grievance - and >> its huge service to the needs of this country to take account the dark facts >> of that way. May the Memorial for the Iraq dead (both Iraqi and 'Coalition >> Forces' }be enshrined in Crawford, Texas - I say. Bush should never left to >> live with himself again. I diverge! >> >> As to where to bury and enshrine poets, it's kind of a startling thought - >> but sweetly curious for the imagination to wonder - if there could be a >> national burial ground in the USA, Canada, Australia or anyone else. Imagine >> - in the USA - Wallace Stevens, Dickinson, Frost, Lowell, Rexroth, Duncan, >> Langston Hughes, etc., etc., all buried in shared grounds. Talk about >> possibilities for creative landscaping! (And the politics of getting in. >> One hesitates to think of National Endowment for the Arts application to get >> your remains into a 'plot'! >> >> Just off the cuff, a single line from Beverly Dahlen's recent book, A >> Reading 18 - 20: >> >> Mourning becomes etc. >> >> I am not sure precisely why that line rings some bells, hard one. I am sure >> it was written during the overwhelming number of deaths from AIDS as that >> epidemic took off in the eighties. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >> >> >> >> >> >>> I googled Père Lachaise Cemetery because I had the idea of quoting it in a >>> poem, see here for God's sake who is in there besides the ones that Mark >>> mentioned: Doré, the same Abelard, Balzac, >> Isadora Duncan, Max Ernst, Gérard >>> de Nerval, and I haven't scrolled down the page, yet. >>> >>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Burials_at_P%C3%A8re_Lachaise_Cemetery >>> >>> >>> >>> On 3/30/07, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>> You pass Chopin, Berlioz, Yves Montand and Simone Signoret on the way >>>> from the one to the other. Pretty neat, tho it definitely could use a >>>> cafe. Every decent cemetery should have a cafe. >>>> >>>> Don't tell Starbucks. >>>> >>>> The tombs of the Rothchilds are in the Montparnasse cemetery, near >>>> where I used to live. Their very plain crypts are marked with a larfe >>>> R, reminiscent of the double R of Rolls Royce. >>>> >>>> Check outthis funereal news in the New York Times: >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/us/30ashes.html >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> At 04:34 PM 3/30/2007, you wrote: >>>>> I guess I would just split myself and gather around both. Never been >>>> there >>>>> even if I was twice in Paris but just for a short stay. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/30/07, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Which in French means "don't gambl;e with tough guys." Always good >>>> advice. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last time I was in Pere Lachaise more folks were gathered arounf >>>>>> Apollinaire than Morrison. Something to cheer about. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> At 03:33 PM 3/30/2007, you wrote: >>>>>>> Sorry, I meant to add that in Paris, where Jim >>>>>>> Morrison is buried, they have a French saying that >>>>>>> translates roughly as "don't put the cart before The >>>>>>> Doors." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Candice >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> __________________ >>>>>>> Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. >>>>>>> Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. >>>>>>> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html >>>>