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Waking from my dogged slumbers I find a really interesting thread, in which the clash of judgments reveals the depth & firmness (I could also say entrenched character) of different perspectives. As an expat Brit, not particularly well read in recent poetry and indifferent to US kudos/culture wars, I have registered Vendler's academic proficiency & insight (of a special kind) into poetry (e.g. Shakespeare's sonnets) but also her apparent blindness to any writing that did not conform to her poetic agenda, if one may call it that - while pushing poets such as Amy Clampitt whose work seemed almost unreadable to me, like a lot of verse, because it is written with little attention to the (my) ear. But I am going to try the new Muldoon, whose work I have found it hard to engage with & thus hear - *Madoc*!- hitherto (which probably says more about my poor intellectual & verbal grasp than about his poetry. It's tough being dumb.) mj joe green wrote: >There are worlds and worlds unaffected by Vendler. > -- A man may write of love, and not be in love, as well as of husbandrie, and not goe to plough: or of witches, and be none: or of holinesse, and be flat prophane. - Giles Fletcher the Elder.