From: Nasser [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 March 2007 12:12
To: 'Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.'
Subject: RE: Computer suppliers
The training issue has come up time and time again and unless the student takes up the recommended training, the quality of service offered by suppliers are inevitably affected.
It seems very unfair to say that the quality of the suppliers service is defined by the quality of your student clients and their ability to take up the training that you offer. Perhaps there is an issues about how training is offered, who it is offered by, where it is offered, when it is offered.
It works for me actually. I get called in to do a lot of training – that’s where I get to help people, which is why I do the job and - of course to make a living. In the training sessions is where I hear stories of poor initial service, long delays, poor communication, unanswered calls, poor follow up when calls are answered, telephone only support preferred by supplier and a reluctance for some suppliers to return to customers because “they the customer” can’t get the machines to work. There seems to be a loss of trust somewhere along the line and the need for an independent, friendly face and approach.
In a complex software environment where the assistive technology software has to sit side by side the games and lime wires and video/music downloads etc, it becomes important that the student is able to follow some basic instructions over the phone so that a solution is found without too much time wasting for the supplier/students with onsite visits.
What are you saying? It reads to me that you are saying that it suits you that students have telephone support so that the supplier doesn’t have to make the journey?
Perhaps also dyslexic and other students can’t deal with (inappropriate) support on the phone because it involves
- Using the phone,
- Listening to instructions in a non multi-sensory approach which is often reported to me in assessments as a no go area for dyslexic students,
- Multi-tasking akin to note taking which students often report is a significant difficulty for them
- A lack of sensitivity to issues that may exist.
You may find this surprising but nearly 85% of our support calls are resolved over the phone and those who have had their training are the ones we spend much shorter time talking to. We carried out an independent survey (see attached paper which was presented by EA Draffan in CSUN last week) which showed that a significant proportion of students who received equipment from us (sample of 500 students contacted by phone and letter) had not taken up this training.. In our experience in the parts of the country where the training uptake is highest, the incidences of technical problems and hence potential conflicts and dissatisfaction are significantly lower.
How many machines do you sell and how many support calls do you receive – again that goes to all suppliers (and can we all look at these stats on your web pages please?
“A significant proportion of students did not take up the training” – suppliers must be losing out on a lot of money there and that can’t be good for business. Surely what is good for business is good for students too? High quality, informed and desirable timely, targeted, tailored training that they want to buy and the supplier wants to sell.
Maybe students are not taking the training because the students have faced so many delays already in the process of getting the playing field levelled for them that they are exhausted and just what to try and get on with some work without more interruptions.
We intend to continue with this research and conduct face-to-face interviews and learn more about their experiences and hopefully improve the services we offer.
I am glad to hear this, although when a company commissions research about itself isn’t there potential for a degree of loss of independence. Should QAG be funding and doing this scale of work – maybe they are...
Alex,
I hope you will find EA’s article useful for your work. Here is the full detail
http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dlRm81MGtFc0kwTVE9PQ
Sorry the attachment was blocked by JISCMAIL due to the size so you may be able to download it from the link. If that does not work I am sure EA can send you the file when she is back
“The file associated with this link has expired”
Seems like I will have to wait until EA is back to read this document.
Perhaps you could mail the attachment to me off list if it is smaller than 10Mb or see if it could be put on the ASASA website.
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Austen
Sent: 23 March 2007 08:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Computer suppliers
Hello Alex
I appreciate the points you have raised and to an extent agree that there are issues here that need addressing.
However I think you have 'hit out' in the wrong direction. I do not think it is an equipment issue but rather a training one.
Where training is carried out by the supplier, the provision is more likely to be taken up than when it is being provided by the Centre.
Too often the student will, for whatever reason, not have training delivered. This obviously will lead to problems.
In some cases there are good reasons why the student should receive training from the centre in the host institution. However and at least the
training should be carried out on the client's own equipment, not 'in house', and carried out by someone with the necessary expertise. And let us at least recognise that the client does have some responsibility in the process.
This Centre does not, except for fairly rare exceptional circumstances, offer training, but we will continue to impress on the client the
importance of the provision, continue to monitor take up and quality, and continue to recommend only highly competent, experienced professional trainers.
Best
David Austen
www.cambridgeaccesscentre <http://www.cambridgeaccesscentre>
----- Original Message ----
From: alex larg <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, 23 March, 2007 2:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: Computer suppliers
Nasser (re your message below following mine) and all,
Often disabled students, in my experience, have been through an awful lot to
get to where they are now; disbelieved, conveniently ignored, unrecognized
as neurologically different, struggling but succeeding, battling for their
rights and still not getting an accessible education. They are then
encumbered by DSA, the additional needs assessments after diagnosis,
continuing exacerbating stress (or CES), the need to consider learning new
and more productive/sustainable strategies, management of support workers
(although maybe not for much longer), confidentiality issues and additional,
well.. additional additional that non-disabled students don't have to deal
with. A level playing field?
I think some suppliers might say that students have unrealistic
expectations. I think that the students expectations are what they are and
that is fine and how it should be. The students are forced, almost, to buy a
premium service from suppliers and so they should have the best possible
service at all points along the way - pre-sale, on delivery, in training
(with a trainer of their choice) and then for the remainder of their course
If they don’t get that they should be able to complain – but where can they
really go – that is my question. I am raising this on their behalf and NOT
pointing fingers - I purely mentioned three suppliers (Microlink, Iansyst
and Avantek) who I think have been audited - that's all. I know there are
other paid up (or not) DSA-QAG suppliers out there too.
I'm just raising questions, debating and trying to gather evidence for
positive service development. That is also why I requested suppliers be
informed of this in my initial message (via yourself) - to be open. I hope
nobody objects to that.
Alex
Alex Larg
[log in to unmask]
07931 561 877 or 07916 175 077
Freelance and Independent Assistive Technology Trainer
Freelance study needs assessor
Former Disability Officer
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nasser
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:22 PM
>
> I will naturally be happy to send this message to the supplier's forum
> as this affects all of us. I think in gathering such information it
> would be extremely important for you to collate the data from both sides
> of the fence as I am certain every supplier will contest the version of
> the truth told by the students.
>
> I hope the purpose of this exercise is to improve the quality of the
> service and this can only be achieved by active participation of
> suppliers and having the opportunity to reply to any unpleasant
> accusations they may be facing from a dissatisfied student complaining
> to their respective assessor/LEA/DO
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Nasser Siabi
> Managing Director
> Microlink PC (UK) Ltd
> Direct: 02380 240 316
> Mobile: 07870603128
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of alex larg
> Sent: 22 March 2007 14:12
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Computer suppliers
>
> Dear Colleagues
>
> I have worked as an AT Trainer, assessor and Disability Officer for
> around 10 years now. Over that time I have worked with hundreds of
> students and some of them seem to have been supplied with unsuitable
> computer hardware. This may be due to assessors not recommending
> appropriate kit: we all make mistakes - I have made and learnt from many
> myself, but this is not my concern here.
>
> It may, however, be due to the suppliers not providing adequate machines
> and/or not providing good and accessible follow up support to their
> clients.
>
> DSA-QAG has been set up, at virtually no cost I believe, to... Well I'm
> not sure what for, but the point is they have introduced a service level
> agreement (SLA) for suppliers who also have to pay for the privilege of
> supplying equipment as a percentage of their turnover. (I'm sure I will
> be kindly corrected for my incorrect facts within this paragraph by
> colleagues.)
>
> My point, when I eventually get there, is that DSA-QAG SLA, is dentally
> challenged, i.e. there is/are no teeth, or at least none that I am able
> to find. (see above.)
>
> What I would ask of you is to ask your colleagues and students for their
> feedback of experiences with suppliers such as Microlink, Iansyst,
> Avantek and other DSA suppliers as I wish to collate some information
> for evidence to take to DSA- QAG / DfES, as I fear from my experience
> some students may be receiving a less that satisfactory service.
>
> Of course positive feedback is welcome, but I have to be more concerned
> with the less satisfactory side of the service too.
>
> I am sending this message cross-forum, and so apologies for those
> receiving this a number of times.
>
> I also ask Nasser at Microlink, in his position as representative for
> suppliers and tier discussion group, to circulate this message on their
> list.
>
> Please pass this onto any other appropriate lists so we can obtain as
> wide feedback as possible. I am in the process of rejoining NADP (if
> they will have me) and so this has not gone to that list. Maybe someone
> at NADP could pass it on if that is deemed appropriate.
>
> I know that suppliers generally ask clients for feedback, but I feel
> that system may be slightly compromised and I don't know whether that
> information is published anywhere.
>
>
> Please contact me off-list with your replies.
>
> Thanks for you time.
> Best wishes,
>
> Alex
>
> Alex Larg
> Freelance Assistive Technology Trainer
> Freelance study needs assessor
> Former Disability Officer
>
>
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