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Hmmm

 

I’m very sympathetic to all the points made and the irony of the obvious alternative to unmindful CBT does not escape me, but I wonder whether these responses are somewhat reactionary and a knee jerk response resulting from the lists justified antipathy to the branded therapies.

 

My understanding of the term mindfulness as it is being peddled by what we might like to see as the snake oil merchants of the psychotherapies is that it is derived from ancient mediation and spiritual traditions such as Daoism and Buddhism. I’m not too familiar with the latter and only indirectly aware of its practices due to my keen and longstanding interest in the former and what I understand to be some correspondence between the 2. As I understand it mindfulness techniques first, or if this is misinformed, most successfully penetrated Euro-American through the success of DBT, which has been heavily marketed as the treatment of choice for so-called ‘borderline personality disorder’. In its form there, mindfulness is derived from zen Buddhist meditation and has the aim of circumventing an individual’s troubling preoccupation with past/future and allowing one to live peacefully ‘in the moment’. Now I don’t accept all this as good uncritically, bear with me - not least because as I understand it Buddhism, particularly the zen form, substantially rips off the, in my opinion superior, system of Daoism, but with the added implication of being an organised religion with connotations of social control (my view on Daoism is that its beautifully anarchic and has built into its very fabric an ideology instinctively and materially opposed to any form of social control and order imposed on one by another).

 

Now then, back to the present concern – while I say I’m sympathetic to the points raised, I have known people have ‘had’ DBT and also 'administered' it and found it to have freed them from much suffering, not least because they have found mindfulness exercises to be a revelation. To borrow ‘embodied brains’ from John Cromby, I wonder how much mindfulness when applied to CBT gets away from the fallacy of the primacy of thought over feeling – it probably doesn’t yet say anything , but a logical consequence of the snake oilers meddling with this is that they will eventually have to call into question the basic and arguable erroneous first principles of CBT. Surely not a bad thing. Also, if these meditational approaches (that have stood the test of time longer than recorded history in most parts of the world) can offer some relief, then why not peddle them? Its all very well being ‘mindful’ of the toxic impress of malign societal forces, inequality, oppression and the way the psychotherapies prop up and serve to maintain the status quo for the profit gods etc., but while liberating to an extent, such discussions with ‘service users’ who seek some salve for their day to day pain isn’t going to be of much direct consequence for them, at least immediately. It appears to me that mindfulness techniques have a place in improving the existential circumstances of some people, some of the time.

 

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater people. There, you can now ignore me or rant at will.

 

Gareth



----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Newnes AOL <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: Being mindful

Message
Miller Mair, Wittgenstein and Russell all point to one of the curious aspects of what can and can't be described in language. This is the tendency to reveal absurdity and vacuity in our use of terms like "mindful". If you want to shred the idea of mindfulness in CBT just ask the question, "What would unmindful CBT look like?" The answer is likely to be a) I don't want it and b) How can something claiming to be Cognitive be unmindful? Come back Derrida - all is forgiven.
C
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">David Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

Dear Craig and all,
 
Shame about the censorship . . . personally I would have far preferred your 'Are we all mad?' to have been published in 'The Independent on Sunday' Sunday Review today rather than any of the pieces actually published. Rufus' piece (and cover illustration) is classic Rufus but the whole special issue raises lots of problematic issues for me.
 
However the piece by Cecilia d'Felice ('Psychological warfare') is especially dreadful with its shameful promotion of the most shallow and ideologically problematic of 'interventions', not least her endorsement of  call centre delivery of CBT inspired nonsense by telephone, which she suggests is a 'community based model'!
 
What about a Rachael style collective UK CP List email about the piece to the Independent on Sunday Sunday Review?
 
By the way Craig, in your piece you wrote "Watch out for . . . .. Mindfulness-based CBT at a venue near you in the next few years." I note that on Cecilia d'Felice's website (http://www.drceciliadfelice.com/home.htm), she  refers to 'Continuing Professional Development' in amongst other things 'Mindfulness Workshop with Jon Kabat-Zinn drawing on mindfulness techniques when working with people with stress, pain and illness' and under 'Models of Psychotherapy' she refers to ' Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT)'

aaaggghhh . . . the next few years is here already

For more grisly detail from Cd'F's website (pasted in) see below

David

Professional Status

  • Full chartered member of the Clinical Division of the British Psychological Society (www.bps.org.uk) adhering to the BPS ethical and professional framework.
  • Associate member of the Association for Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy in the NHS.
  • Member of the BPS Holistic special interest group.
  • Working in the NHS at the Royal Free Hospital, Hampstead in Adult Mental Health.

Qualifications

  • Professional Doctorate in Clinical Psychology (DClinPsychol)
  • B.Sc. Honours degree in Psychology and Sociology (First Class Part I and Part II) with undergraduate prizes awarded including the Pearson Prize for making an ‘Outstanding Contribution to Psychology’.

Professional Training at:

Research at:

  • Institute of Psychiatry (www.iop.kcl.ac.uk)
  • Awarded Medical Research Council Pre-doctoral fellowship in Behavioural Genomics.

Continuing Professional Development

  • MA in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
  • Jungian Analytical Psychology
  • Pesso Boyden System Psychomotor (www.pbsp.com)
  • Development of Psychoanalytic Theory
  • Psychodynamic Psychotherapy for Older Adults
  • Mindfulness Workshop with Jon Kabat-Zinn drawing on mindfulness techniques when working with people with stress, pain and illness.

Models of Psychotherapy - find more about these models HERE

  • Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)
  • Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT)
  • Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy.
    From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Craig Newnes AOL
    Sent: Sat 17/03/2007 17:43
    To: [log in to unmask]
    Subject: Re: Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

ere u go
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">David Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

Could you post "Are we all mad" on this list Craig, if your piece has been censored by the editors?  I am particularly keen to be able to read it 'cos of "politics"'!
David
PS Would the editors concerned be the editors of the Sunday Review magazine?

David Fryer
University of Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]

-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Newnes AOL
Sent: 17 March 2007 3:15 pm
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

Interestingly I did a commissioned piece for Rufus last year for this special. It was called "Are we all mad" and was the first paper delivered, well within the deadline. I just heard from Rufus that the editors won't use it cos of "politics." The piece examined the vested interest in calling others mad and taking on survivor identities. This new news may mean they are using it after all - tho I doubt it
C
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">David Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 12:05 AM
Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

Dear All,
I am forwarding on this message from Rufus May as it may be of wide interest
David
 
From: Rufus May [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Fri 16/03/2007 23:44
To: David Fryer; ......................
Subject: Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday

Hello everybody... can you please spread the word about this Sunday's Independent on Sunday Review magazine:
The journey through 'mental elf' problems can be a spiritual process. A time of crisis, reflection and regeneration.  In this special issue we look at the whole mental health continuum, how people have dealt with and transcended their difficulties and gone on to make a contribution to life. People who have been silenced are reclaiming their voices and hopefully this will lead to radical change in how we listen and respond to madness. Many thanks, Rufus May, Guest Editor

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