Hmmm
I’m very sympathetic to all the points made and the irony of
the obvious alternative to unmindful CBT does not escape me, but I wonder
whether these responses are somewhat reactionary and a knee jerk response
resulting from the lists justified antipathy to the branded therapies.
My understanding of the term mindfulness as it is being
peddled by what we might like to see as the snake oil merchants of the
psychotherapies is that it is derived from ancient mediation and spiritual
traditions such as Daoism and Buddhism. I’m not too familiar with the latter and
only indirectly aware of its practices due to my keen and longstanding interest
in the former and what I understand to be some correspondence between the 2. As
I understand it mindfulness techniques first, or if this is misinformed, most successfully
penetrated Euro-American through the success of DBT, which has been heavily
marketed as the treatment of choice for so-called ‘borderline personality disorder’.
In its form there, mindfulness is derived from zen Buddhist meditation and has
the aim of circumventing an individual’s troubling preoccupation with
past/future and allowing one to live peacefully ‘in the moment’. Now I don’t accept
all this as good uncritically, bear with me - not least because as I understand
it Buddhism, particularly the zen form, substantially rips off the, in my opinion
superior, system of Daoism, but with the added implication of being an
organised religion with connotations of social control (my view on Daoism is
that its beautifully anarchic and has built into its very fabric an ideology
instinctively and materially opposed to any form of social control and order imposed
on one by another).
Now then, back to the present concern – while I say I’m sympathetic
to the points raised, I have known people have ‘had’
DBT and also 'administered' it and found it to have freed them from much suffering, not least because they
have found mindfulness exercises to be a revelation. To borrow ‘embodied brains’
from John Cromby, I wonder how much mindfulness when applied to CBT gets away from
the fallacy of the primacy of thought over feeling – it probably doesn’t yet
say anything , but a logical consequence of the snake oilers meddling with this
is that they will eventually have to call into question the basic and arguable erroneous
first principles of CBT. Surely not a bad thing. Also, if these meditational approaches
(that have stood the test of time longer than recorded history in most parts of
the world) can offer some relief, then why not peddle them? Its all very well
being ‘mindful’ of the toxic impress of malign societal forces, inequality,
oppression and the way the psychotherapies prop up and serve to maintain the
status quo for the profit gods etc., but while liberating to an extent, such discussions
with ‘service users’ who seek some salve for their day to day pain isn’t going
to be of much direct consequence for them, at least immediately. It appears to
me that mindfulness techniques have a place in improving the existential circumstances
of some people, some of the time.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater people. There, you
can now ignore me or rant at will.
Gareth
----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Newnes AOL <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: Being mindful
Message
Miller Mair, Wittgenstein and Russell all point to
one of the curious aspects of what can and can't be described in language. This
is the tendency to reveal absurdity and vacuity in our use of terms like
"mindful". If you want to shred the idea of mindfulness in CBT just ask the
question, "What would unmindful CBT look like?" The answer is likely to be a) I
don't want it and b) How can something claiming to be Cognitive be unmindful?
Come back Derrida - all is forgiven.
C
----- Original Message -----
From:
David
Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:38
AM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental
health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday
Dear Craig and
all,
Shame about the censorship . . .
personally I would have far
preferred your 'Are we all mad?' to have been published in 'The
Independent on Sunday' Sunday Review today rather than any of the pieces
actually published. Rufus' piece (and cover illustration) is classic Rufus but
the whole special issue raises lots of problematic issues for me.
However the piece by Cecilia d'Felice
('Psychological warfare') is especially dreadful with its shameful promotion
of the most shallow and ideologically problematic of 'interventions', not
least her endorsement of call centre delivery of CBT inspired nonsense
by telephone, which she suggests is a 'community based model'!
What about a Rachael style
collective UK CP List email about the piece to the Independent on Sunday
Sunday Review?
By the way Craig, in your piece you wrote
"Watch
out for . . . .. Mindfulness-based CBT at a
venue near you in the next few years." I note that on Cecilia d'Felice's
website (http://www.drceciliadfelice.com/home.htm),
she refers to 'Continuing Professional Development' in amongst
other things 'Mindfulness Workshop with Jon Kabat-Zinn drawing on
mindfulness techniques when working with people with stress, pain and
illness' and under 'Models of Psychotherapy' she refers
to ' Mindfulness Based Cognitive
Therapy (MBCT)'
aaaggghhh . . . the next few years is here already
For more grisly detail from Cd'F's website (pasted in) see below
David
Professional Status
Full chartered member of the Clinical Division of the British
Psychological Society (www.bps.org.uk) adhering to the
BPS ethical and professional framework.
Associate member of the Association for Psychoanalytic
Psychotherapy in the NHS.
Member of the BPS Holistic special interest group.
Working in the NHS at the Royal Free Hospital, Hampstead in
Adult Mental Health.
Qualifications
Professional Doctorate in Clinical Psychology
(DClinPsychol)
B.Sc. Honours degree in Psychology and Sociology (First Class
Part I and Part II) with undergraduate prizes awarded including the Pearson
Prize for making an ‘Outstanding Contribution to Psychology’.
Professional Training at:
Tavistock Centre (www.tavi-port.org)
Royal Free Hospital (www.royalfree.org.uk)
Great Ormond Street Hospital (www.ich.ucl.ac.uk)
Research at:
Institute of Psychiatry (www.iop.kcl.ac.uk)
Awarded Medical Research Council Pre-doctoral fellowship in
Behavioural Genomics.
Continuing Professional Development
MA in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy
Jungian Analytical Psychology
Pesso Boyden System Psychomotor (www.pbsp.com)
Development of Psychoanalytic Theory
Psychodynamic Psychotherapy for Older Adults
Mindfulness Workshop with Jon Kabat-Zinn drawing on mindfulness
techniques when working with people with stress, pain and illness.
Models of Psychotherapy - find more about these models HERE
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)
Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT)
Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy.
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
List on behalf of Craig Newnes AOL
Sent: Sat 17/03/2007
17:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
Mental health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this
Sunday
ere u go
----- Original Message -----
From: David
Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:36
PM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental
health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday
Could you post "Are we all mad" on this list Craig, if your piece
has been censored by the editors? I am particularly
keen to be able to read it 'cos of "politics"'!
David
PS
Would the editors concerned be the editors of the Sunday Review
magazine?
David Fryer
University of
Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK
Community Psychology Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Newnes
AOL
Sent: 17 March 2007 3:15 pm
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Mental health
special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday
Interestingly I did a commissioned piece for
Rufus last year for this special. It was called "Are we all mad" and was
the first paper delivered, well within the deadline. I just heard from
Rufus that the editors won't use it cos of "politics." The piece examined
the vested interest in calling others mad and taking on survivor
identities. This new news may mean they are using it after all - tho I
doubt it
C
----- Original Message -----
From: David
Fryer
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007
12:05 AM
Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Mental
health special IOS Sunday Review magazine this Sunday
Dear
All,
I am forwarding on this message
from Rufus May as it may be of wide interest
David
From: Rufus May
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Fri 16/03/2007
23:44
To: David Fryer;
......................
Subject: Mental health special IOS
Sunday Review magazine this Sunday
Hello everybody... can you please spread the word about this
Sunday's Independent on Sunday Review magazine:
The journey through 'mental elf' problems can be
a spiritual process. A time of crisis, reflection and
regeneration. In this special issue we look at the whole mental
health continuum, how people have dealt with and transcended their
difficulties and gone on to make a contribution to life. People who have
been silenced are reclaiming their voices and hopefully this will lead
to radical change in how we listen and respond to madness. Many thanks,
Rufus May, Guest
Editor
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