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I've barely been following the list recently--overwhelmingly busy. But I did catch the tale end of this thread. I would have loved to see the improvements suggested to the Auden. For my part, I think it beyond improvement. What could one possibly do with a line as stupid, and trivializing, as "Mad Ireland hurt you into poetry?" This, and his elegy for Freud, written in the same period, are usually held up as Auden asserting a neoclassicism, which was to turn a lot of poetry into public school (in the brit sense) irony verging on smugness and smirk for the next 20 years. It's unfair of course to blame Auden for the hordes of his followers, and I'll admit to not having shaken off the memory of when Auden himself had become the old order one had to fight. His work has never done anything for me, and usually bores the hell out ofme. I admire his facility but wish he'd been willing to challenge himself. Here he's directly challenging what for him was the old order, Yeats' neoromantic modernism. The problem is that Yeats, as silly as he often is and worse, is so much better a poet, so much more willing to push his limits, even if that meant occasional bathos. He was always changing. Out of a lifetime of struggle with the medium came Among School Children, and a great deal else along the way. Some wonderful plays and prose, too. As to the prose, generally less known, the introductions to both versions of A Vision are wonderful, despite the silliness to follow, as are the stories of Red Hanrahan and the early Celtic Twilight, and of course the autobiographies, including The Death of Synge. As to using the word poet in a poem, why is that different in kind from using the word blacksmith, say? Except that most of us know a lot more about what's involved in being a poet. Does it make a difference if one writes about or refers to a poet without using the job title? OK, back to bibliography. Mark At 07:22 AM 2/16/2007, you wrote: >Thank you, Alison -- I didn't mean it in any malicious way -- but >the responsibility is still mine. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:19 AM >Subject: Re: Early Snap - Famous > > >>Well, I should have kept my own mouth shut. >> >>For my part, I honestly didn't think Tad's posting of the poem to be >>malicious, and I'm sorry it's been taken that way. >> >>On 2/16/07, TheOldMole <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>I do apologize. There are lots and lots and lots of canonical poems that I >>>wouldn't recognize -- probably more for me than most of the people on this >>>list. >>> >>>The only thing I can say is that I wasn't attempting to justify anything, >>>because when I posted my second note, I hadn't realized that people had >>>critiqued Auden (and well, I thought). I should have posted this apology >>>sooner. >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MC Ward" <[log in to unmask]> >>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:30 PM >>>Subject: Re: Early Snap - Famous >>> >>> >>> > Alison, >>> > >>> > Are you satisfied by Tad's "justification" of what he >>> > did? Myself, I feel that he should at least apologize >>> > to the list in general--and Anny and Kasper in >>> > particular--for making fools of us/them, if nothing >>> > else. >>> > >>> > I'm very upset by this, and I wonder what Anny and Joe >>> > think. >>> > >>> > Candice >>> > >>> > Let the water wash over your face >>> > I'll send it in waves >>> > Just to see you perform the great escape >>> > (Moby) >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> > >>> >> I expect that Moley here didn't realise that people >>> >> wouldn't recognise >>> >> that poem! >>> >> >>> >> And I am, I confess, more than a little surprised. >>> >> Surely one of >>> >> Auden's best known? And that line, "poetry makes >>> >> nothing happen", one >>> >> of his most quoted? Certainly one of my favourites >>> >> of all time. (I'm >>> >> sure that Wystan would appreciate the workshopping; >>> >> that last stanza >>> >> is in my eyes pretty incredible...) >>> >> >>> >> All best >>> >> >>> >> A >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au >>> >> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >>> >> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>> > Don't pick lemons. >>> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. >>> > http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html >> >> >>-- >>Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au >>Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >>Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com