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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I think the discussion we had about 5 years ago on the burial of the unbaptised might be germane here - we talked about things like revenants and the problem of women who died in or soon after childbirth and before they could be churched. And there was a lot about the difficult concepts of 'popular' and 'official' religion. Maddy Dr Madeleine Gray Head of History School of Education/Ysgol Addysg University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion, PO /Blwch Post 179 Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3YG Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675 'You may not be able to change the world but at least you can embarrass the guilty' (Jessica Mitford) ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture on behalf of Ursula Troche Sent: Wed 2/28/2007 10:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] significance of - Wearing Black at Funerals - spirits medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear Rochelle, Christopher, Meg, Otfried and others, basically then the evidence of recognition is far greater than the funeral director's 'folklore/myth'. Or can it be that different parts of the country had different beliefs - or perhaps there were different beliefs at different times? Or should we discard the undertaker completely? I had also heard about the belief that the spirits of the dead will acquire new bodies - they used to believe that in at least parts of Germany (where i am from) as well. The belief there went beyond funerals, they thought that even vice versa, that in winter at night the spirits of the trees could attack those of the dead (except those who died by sacrifice). Did this belief also exist in Britain? The idea of the sacrifice sounds quite horrible but as to the spirits of the deceased acquiring new bodies that might not necessarily be a bad thing. And also there is a question on whether these beliefs belonged to medieval Christianity or 'only' to pagans. Where can I read more on the issue? Any literature you can recommend? Ursula Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture From: "Cormack, Margaret Jean" >As I recall from the original posting...it was the claim of a funeral director (not a historian) that the deceased would not be able to recognize family members. that's right. >This strikes me as most unlikely, considering the number of folkloric ghosts that return from the dead precisely to warn the living to reform their lives. I´ve never heard or read of a recognition problem. of course, the phenomenon (from our Rationalistic point of view) is purely the creation of the *living*, not the dead. that being the case, recognition of the former by the latter is a Given. >I´m guessing that this is just a guess by the funeral director. well, i guess it may have originally been a "guess", but i believe by now what we're dealing with is a pretty solid piece of Undertakerly Folklore. c ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/nowyoucan/free_from_isp/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40565/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html> goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html