Print

---

All

This is an intriguing discussion.

On this side of the pond (an idiom I actually dislike) - but here in the US,
parallel discussions are also taking place about the use of Ebonics are
"standard" English, and its status as a rule-driven dialect.

In ESOL contexts we talk a lot about helping learners see the contexts in
which language is used (slang, local terms/idioms, etc) and the potential
consequences of using one word/phrase in a particular context, with
particular interlocutors, etc.  At the end of the day it seems that if
learners understand how particular words and phrases are used and
understood, they then can work out - with or without assistance - how and
when to use them themselves.

As for local peculiarities: in Rhode Island, where I live, a water fountain
(for drinking) is called a bubbler.  A big sandwich with meat and vegetables
and who knows what all else is called a grinder.  That same sandwich might
be called a hero or a hoagie somewhere else.  A milk shake can be an 'awful
awful' (at one restaurant around the state), etc. etc.

I love it when students bring these words to class and we can work out their
meannings.

Finally, working on a college campus, I hear young people using language (in
English, I believe) that I can barely understand.  ("I feel you" for I feel
your pain, I empathise; you're the bomb, etc, etc).  So the whole
generational/pop culture thing is a whole other ball of wax as well.

Janet Isserlis


> From: Frances Nehme <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: Frances Nehme <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:30:10 +0000
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Conversation: Using colloquialisms in ESOL classrooms
> Subject: Re: Using colloquialisms in ESOL classrooms
> 
> It is an issue, really, of the mismatch between what is useful to learners,
> what they want, what we are willing (or able) to provide and what is
> required by our employers.
> 
> Anecdotally, some years ago a prospective ESOL learner turned up to enrol
> for classes in Walthamstow. He said to the secretary 'I want learn English
> proper like in street. I no want speak like you, posh, posh' She was
> intrigued - because until then she had only come up against people who
> wanted to speak proper - as in Standard, as this was seen as a way of
> getting on in the UK - many learners were quite sniffy about the way local
> people spoke English.
> 
> The difficulty of teaching local dialects is one of complexity - my
> experience of Bradford and Leeds is that there are wide differences in
> people's access to dialect and even in how 'broad Yorkshire' they are. Some
> local people speak of laiking and gunnels and snickets, others know nothing
> of such things. 
> 
> ESOL learners often bring amusing stories of their own struggles with
> varieties of vocabulary - one of my Walthamstow students had learnt to buy
> 'buns' when up North. His family moved South and after some confusion, the
> local baker told him they were not 'buns' but 'rolls' - and so on for
> ever...
> More standardised BBC type English is easier to teach or to present formally
> simply because it is more standard.
> However, I do feel that the teacher able to interpret and explain local
> dialects, when asked, has an edge.
> There is also the question, in Adult Education, of the language brought home
> by learners' children, particularly teenagers.
> 
> Frances  
> 
> 
> On 16/2/07 07:29, "stephen woulds" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> I couldn't agree more. This is something I feel strongly about. Each area in
>> the UK has its own language acquisition challenges because of differences in
>> regional accents, dialects and contexts. But we often find a very 'pure' form
>> of English being taught with emphasis on ESOL CC 'level descriptors' and
>> discrete skills and grammar to the detriment of a more richer, vernacular
>> English. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Here is an example of how context and dialect inform communicative meaning. A
>> student of mine called Ali was waiting for a bus in Leeds city-centre. He
>> overheard two teenage girls talking about three buses at once. One of the
>> girls turned to Ali and said, "'Ave ya got time on ya?" A perplexed Ali
>> replied, "Sorry, I'm very busy," and walked off quickly. He understood the
>> vocabulary, the reference to time, but he didn't understand the signified,
>> the
>> referential watch on his wrist and the fact that the girls were making a
>> common complaint about the irregularity of buses. Without an awareness of
>> context our interpretation of communication is often reduced to 'context-free
>> semantic information as given in a dictionary,' (Levy, 1999). Ali thought he
>> was being asked to do something for her which would require a length of his
>> time. He had no idea why they would need three buses at once nor that they
>> simply wanted Ali to tell them the time. The failed interaction was not
>> helped
>> by the fact that the Yorkshire dialect sometimes drops the definitive article
>> the before a noun, "Have you got the time on you?" e.g. "I'm going to shop,"
>> rather than "I'm going to the shop."
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> At Leeds Thomas Danby our ESOL tutors created 21 videos in 'local' settings
>> with 'local' vernacular English. This was put onto DVD and video and
>> distributed to all tutors. I have found that my students enjoy learning
>> regional English, examining how language breaks the rules, the pronunciation,
>> the grammar, of the official language they have been taught. You can find
>> more
>> information about the project if you are interested in doing something
>> similar
>> yourself at: http://www.aclearn.net/display.cfm?resID=21714 Alternatively,
>> video a regional soap or invite guest speakers. Some of my students watch
>> Emmerdale, set in Yorkshire. Why not use that as a resource for
>> teaching/learning English?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> 
>> From: ESOL-Research discussion forum on behalf of Judith Boardman
>> Sent: Thu 15/02/2007 21:57
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Using colloquialisms in ESOL classrooms
>> 
>> 
>> Being born and bred in a Bradford working class family, I have found that I
>> use Yorkshire colloquialisms all the time while teaching without even
>> realising it! Sometimes learners ask me what something means and I have to
>> explain "It's what people in Bradford say but you probably won't hear this
>> anywhere else!" I used to feel somewhat embarrassed by the fact that I may
>> not always be using 'proper' English until I realised that my colloquialisms
>> are the ones students will encounter in the real world every day.
>> 
>> Judith Boardman
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
>> on behalf of Leeds Thomas Danby. For more information please visit
>> http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> *********************************** ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers
>> and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning
>> ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language
>> Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds. To join or
>> leave
>> ESOL-Research, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html A
>> quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
>> http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm To contact the list owner,
>> send
>> an email to [log in to unmask]
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
>> on behalf of Leeds Thomas Danby. For more information please visit
>> http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> ***********************************
>> ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest
>> in
>> research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James
>> Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education,
>> University of Leeds.
>> To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
>> A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
>> http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm
>> To contact the list owner, send an email to
>> [log in to unmask]
> 
> ***********************************
> ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in
> research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James
> Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education,
> University of Leeds.
> To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
> A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
> http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm
> To contact the list owner, send an email to
> [log in to unmask]

***********************************
ESOL-Research is a forum for researchers and practitioners with an interest in research into teaching and learning ESOL. ESOL-Research is managed by James Simpson at the Centre for Language Education Research, School of Education, University of Leeds.
To join or leave ESOL-Research, visit
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ESOL-RESEARCH.html
A quick guide to using Jiscmail lists can be found at:
http://jiscmail.ac.uk/help/using/quickuser.htm
To contact the list owner, send an email to
[log in to unmask]