It is actually called parliamentary democracy with political parties etc.
Alternatively, of course, we can have a lynch mob.
I didn't think we needed to have a lesson in civics.
In the same way as you accept the view of your council although you might
not agree with it - but we have the opportunity to participate in all sorts
of ways.
Of course, most people can't be bothered to take part in such processes
until there is something that directly concerns them.
That is called apathy.
Nick Landau
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scourfield, Brenda" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
> More like 'the government has made a decision for us, regardless of what
> the
> nation might think.'
>
> That's my last word on the matter, though they have been few as I do not
> feel capital punishment is a topic for this forum.
>
> Was showing Saddam's pictures immediately before his death a breach of his
> DP rights and after he was hung, not so as DP doesn't apply to dead
> people.....
>
> Brenda Scourfield
> Team Leader
> I.T. Division
> Pembrokeshire County Council
> County Hall
> Haverfordwest
> SA61 1 TP
>
> Tel 01437 775380
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau
>> Sent: 08 January 2007 14:50
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Disclosure
>>
>> I assume that when Tim Trent says "we have taken a view as a nation" it
>> means that this Parliament has voted on it.
>>
>> It is the sort of thing that Government ministers might say.
>>
>> Nick Landau
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tim Turner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 2:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
>>
>>
>> > This is way, way off the subject, but I don't think the statement "we
>> have
>> > taken a view as a nation" has a firm basis. Although I personally
>> disagree
>> > with them, a lot of the nation still take the view that murderers
>> > should
>>
>> > be
>> > executed. Look at any opinion poll on the subject, and I think you'll
>> find
>> > out what the nation thinks.
>> >
>> > Tim Turner
>> > Data Protection / FOI Officer
>> > Legal and Property Services
>> > Wigan Council
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
>> > Sent: Mon 08 January 2007 12:12
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
>> >
>> > It's a bit more complex that that. The sentence is for Life, and there
>> is
>> > a
>> > time before which one may not be released as a "Life Licensee" (subject
>> to
>> > conditions, recall, etc etc.
>> >
>> > Since we stopped executing murderers we have taken a view as a nation
>> that
>> > people may be released after a relevant number of years has been
>> > served,
>> > with due consideration to the individual, the circumstances of the
>> > crime
>> > etc.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scourfield, Brenda
>> > Sent: 08 January 2007 11:51
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
>> >
>> > What I find more disturbing is that a life sentence for murder seems to
>> be
>> > about 11 years.
>> >
>> > Brenda Scourfield
>> > Team Leader
>> > I.T. Division
>> > Pembrokeshire County Council
>> > County Hall
>> > Haverfordwest
>> > SA61 1 TP
>> >
>> > Tel 01437 775380
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>> >> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau
>> >> Sent: 08 January 2007 11:04
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: Disclosure
>> >>
>> >> I am not sure if anyone has posted this but here is the BBC news item
>> >> (containing photos) but which gives the background to the case, with
>> >> comments of the Lord Falconer etc.
>> >>
>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6234223.stm
>> >>
>> >> "'Danger to public'
>> >>
>> >> "When you are dealing with two convicted murderers, both of whom have
>> >> absconded, it is utterly obvious that there is no public interest
>> >> arising out of the Human Rights Act which prevents publication," he
>> >> told
>> > the BBC.
>> >>
>> >> The Department for Constitutional Affairs (DCA) also said that the
>> >> photos should be published if the men are considered a danger to the
>> > public.
>> >>
>> >> The department said the Human Rights Act "explicitly" allows police to
>> >> print "wanted" pictures if it is in the public interest."
>> >>
>> >> From Liberty:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/news-and-events/1-press-release
>> >> s/20 07/derbyshire-fugitive-prisoners-case.shtml
>> >>
>> >> "Derbyshire Police have revealed that although two convicted murderers
>> >> are
>> >>
>> >> among 13 inmates who absconded from Sudbury open prison since November
>> >> 2006, they would not publish the photos of the men due to factors
>> >> including their human rights protections.
>> >>
>> >> In response, Liberty Director Shami Chakrabarti said:
>> >>
>> >> "Nothing in the Human Rights Act prevents publishing pictures to
>> >> capture a
>> >>
>> >> fugitive - on the contrary, the rights of potential victims may create
>> >> an obligation to do so. But ultimately this must be an operational
>> >> policing decision, not a political one. There is a difference between
>> >> naming and shaming versus the necessity of a manhunt."
>> >>
>> >> The Lord Chancellor has also dismissed the suggestion that the Human
>> >> Rights Act prevented the publication of the photographs of the two
>> >> murderers as "absolute nonsense.""
>> >>
>> >> Nick Landau
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Tim Turner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:27 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I doubt that the current situation is the same as this case -
>> >> >releasing pictures of the escapees could reasonably be said to be
>> >> >proportionate,
>> >> in
>> >> > the sense that they have committed an offence (escaping from
>> >> > prison),
>> >> and
>> >> > one way in which their crime can be resolved is if they are
>> >> > recognised
>> >> by
>> >> > a
>> >> > member of the public after their photograph has been released. It
>> >> > isn't
>> >> a
>> >> > matter of further punishment, but practical need.
>> >> >
>> >> > On first reading, the problem with the Essex case appears to be that
>> >> they
>> >> > could have done a similar campaign emphasising the sentences
>> >> > received
>> >> for
>> >> > certain crimes without identifying the individuals. There was no
>> >> > actual need to identify the individuals - not the same as the
>> >> > situation with the escapees, continuing to commit a crime purely by
>> >> > virtue of the fact that they aren't in prison where the court says
>> >> > that they should be.
>> >> >
>> >> > Tim Turner
>> >> > Data Protection / FOI Officer
>> >> > Legal and Property Services
>> >> > Wigan Council
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
>> >> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alan Stead
>> >> > Sent: Mon 08 January 2007 09:32
>> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Disclosure
>> >> >
>> >> > Sorry to prolong the discussion but you may find the attached Case
>> >> > interesting:
>> >> >
>> >> > R (On the application of ELLIS) v THE CHIEF CONSTABLE OF ESSEX
>> >> > POLICE
>> >> > (2003)
>> >> > [2003] EWHC 1321 (Admin) QBD (Lord Woolf of Barnes LCJ, Goldring J)
>> >> > 12/6/2003 HUMAN RIGHTS - CRIMINAL LAW - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE - POLICE
>> >> > OFFENDER NAMING SCHEMES : PUBLIC INTEREST : REDUCTION OF CRIME :
>> >> > PREVENTION OF CRIME
>> >> > : DETECTION OF CRIME : PROTECTION OF RIGHTS OF OTHERS : PUBLICATION
>> >> > OF PHOTOGRAPHS : DISPLAY OF POSTERS : DISCLOSURES OF IDENTITY :
>> >> > CONVICTED PERSONS : NAMING AND SHAMING : PROBATION SERVICES : SOCIAL
>> > SERVICES :
>> >> > LOCAL
>> >> > AUTHORITIES : CIRCUMSTANCES OF OFFENDERS : RISK ASSESSMENTS :
>> >> > REHABILITATION
>> >> > OF OFFENDERS : RISK OF REOFFENDING : RISK OF HOMELESSNESS : RISK OF
>> >> > HARM
>> >>
>> >> > TO
>> >> > FAMILY : PROTECTION OF CHILDREN : UNFAIRNESS : DISCRIMINATION :
>> >> > ART.8
>> :
>> >> > RIGHT TO RESPECT FOR PRIVATE AND FAMILY LIFE : PRESUMPTION OF
>> >> > INNOCENCE
>> >> :
>> >> > EUROPEAN CONVENTION FOR THE PROTECTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND
>> >> > FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS 1950 : EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS :
>> >> > ECHR : CRIME AND DISORDER ACT 1998 In terms of the right to respect
>> >> > for private and
>> >> family
>> >> > life under Art.8 European Convention on Human Rights, the legality
>> >> > of an "offender naming scheme" operated by police could not be
>> >> > determined in principle and would depend on how the scheme was
>> >> > operated in practice in relation to each particular offender.
>> >> > Application concerning the lawfulness of an "offender naming scheme"
>> >> > operated by the defendant ('Essex police'). The scheme was
>> >> > introduced
>> >> with
>> >> > a
>> >> > view to reducing burglary and car crime in the Brentwood area, and
>> >> > was implemented in an attempt by Essex police to perform its duties
>> >> > under
>> >> the
>> >> > Crime and Disorder Act 1998 to implement strategies for reducing
>> crime.
>> >> It
>> >> > involved displaying posters at some 40 sites showing the name and
>> >> > face
>> >> of
>> >> > a
>> >> > selected offender, the nature of his offence and the sentence he was
>> >> > serving. Essex police's protocol governing the scheme required that
>> >> > only offenders serving at least 12 months in prison would be
>> >> > selected for inclusion in the scheme and that the offender and his
>> >> > legal
>> >> representative
>> >> > were to be given written notice on the day of sentencing and given
>> >> > seven days in which to register an objection. The selection would
>> >> > then require approval from a senior officer after a risk assessment
>> >> > carried out in consultation with the probation service and social
>> >> > services. The
>> >> probation
>> >> > service had expressed reservations about the Brentwood scheme, the
>> >> > local authority had expressly disapproved of it, and NACRO had
>> >> > stated that it would interfere with the rehabilitation of offenders
>> >> > and would be ineffective in reducing the reoffending rate. The
>> >> > claimant ('E') was selected by Essex Police to be the first offender
>> > used in the scheme.
>> >> The
>> >> > probation service concluded that to use E would, on his release from
>> >> > prison, increase his risk of homelessness, drug misuse, re-offending
>> >> > and non-compliance on licence, and was likely to increase the risk
>> >> > of harm
>> >> to
>> >> > the public. They also concluded that there was a risk of harm to E's
>> >> > parents, ex-partner and young daughter who all lived in the
>> >> > locality.
>> >> > Essex
>> >> > police took the view that there would be no such adverse
>> >> > consequences of including E in the scheme, as his conduct on release
>> >> > was unlikely to be affected, his crimes had already been reported in
>> >> > the press, his ex-partner and daughter had changed their names, and
>> >> > E had indicated that he
>> >> intended
>> >> > to move away from Essex. However, Essex police subsequently decided
>> >> > to withdraw E from the scheme and the court was left to rule on the
>> >> > lawfulness of the scheme in principle rather than E's case in
>> >> > particular. It was
>> >> not
>> >> > disputed that the scheme involved an interference with private and
>> >> family
>> >> > life contrary to Art.8(1) European Convention on Human Rights but
>> >> > Essex police argued that any interference was justified under
>> >> > Art.8(2) as
>> >> being
>> >> > necessary in the interests of the prevention or detection of crime
>> >> > or
>> >> the
>> >> > protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
>> >> >
>> >> > HELD: (1) There was a general presumption that information should
>> >> > not be disclosed by the police, in view of the potentially serious
>> >> > effect on
>> >> the
>> >> > ability of convicted people to live normal lives and the risk of
>> >> violence
>> >> > towards such people, but there was a public interest in favour of
>> >> > disclosure where necessary for the prevention or detection of crime
>> >> > or the
>> >> protection
>> >> > of vulnerable people, and each case must be considered on its
>> >> > particular facts. There should only be disclosure where there was a
>> >> > pressing need, and the police must first obtain as much information
>> >> > as reasonably practicable, including from other agencies. It was a
>> >> > principle of law that the police were not entitled to punish and
>> >> > that they should not seek to do so by "naming and shaming"
>> >> > offenders. It was also a principle of law that a convicted person
>> >> > retained all his rights that were not expressly taken away by law.
>> >> > Hellewell v Chief Constable of Derbyshire (1995) 1 WLR 804 and R
>> >> v
>> >> > Chief Constable of North Wales Police & Ors, ex parte Thorpe & Anor
>> >> (1999)
>> >> > QB 396 applied. (2) Had it been necessary to rule on E's individual
>> >> case,
>> >> > the court would have done so in E's favour. There was concern as to
>> >> Essex
>> >> > police's superficial reaction to the risk factors identified by the
>> >> > probation service. Damage could have been done to E's family and
>> >> > child despite their change of name, and they also had rights under
>> >> > Art.8. It
>> >> was
>> >> > particularly important to safeguard the rights of E's child and
>> >> > there
>> >> was
>> >> > a
>> >> > real question as to whether it could ever be appropriate to nominate
>> >> > the father of a young child for inclusion in the scheme. The scheme
>> >> > also involved a degree of unfairness in that it discriminated
>> >> > between those offenders who were included and those who were not,
>> >> > and the former would
>> >>
>> >> > see
>> >> > inclusion as a form of additional punishment. (3) However, it was
>> >> > not desirable in this case to rule that the scheme in principle was
>> >> > either lawful or unlawful, because its legality depended on the
>> >> > particular circumstances of each offender included in it and how the
>> >> > scheme was operated in practice. Accordingly, the court would not
>> >> > grant a
>> >> declaration
>> >> > that the scheme was incapable of being operated lawfully.
>> >> Notwithstanding
>> >> > this, there was at least a doubt whether the possible benefits of
>> >> > the scheme were proportionate to the intrusion into an offender's
>> >> > Art.8 rights, and
>> >>
>> >> > the
>> >> > police would have to undertake considerable care in the
>> >> > investigation of
>> >> a
>> >> > selected offender's circumstances, and in the operation of the
>> >> > scheme,
>> >> if
>> >> > it
>> >> > were to be lawful. Until that happened, however, the legality of the
>> >> > scheme remained uncertain.
>> >> >
>> >> > No order.
>> >> > Tim Owen QC & Paul Mylvaganam instructed by Sanders Witherspoon for
>> >> > the claimant. Anne Stud instructed by the Solicitor for the Police
>> >> > Force
>> >> > (Essex)
>> >> > for the defendant.
>> >> > LTL 16/6/2003 : (2003) 2 FLR 566 : (2003) ACD 350 : Times, June 17,
>> >> > 2003
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope this helps a bit
>> >> >
>> >> > Alan
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Alan Stead
>> >> > Service Manager-Information Governance Nottingham City Council
>> >> > Guildhall Burton Street Nottingham NG1 4BT Tel 0115.9154943
>> >> >
>> >> >
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> unwaith. Ni ddylid rhoi'r cyfeiriad e-bost i unrhyw drydydd parti na'i
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> Gwefan Cyngor Sir Penfro - http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk
> Mae'r llofnod hwn hefyd yn cadarnhau bod y neges e-bost hon wedi cael ei
> harchwilio am fodolaeth firysau cyfrifiadurol a chod maleisus.
> ***************************************************************************************************************
>
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