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Hi Geoff My steer on this is that it does seems like a bit of a fair ground ride for existing staff, especially for those who have reached or are near the top of their sales. Where it does seem to come into its own is when considering new staff, especially those who have come through unfamiliar routes with 'non-standard' backgrounds; and with the curent trends in cross-skilling this will happen more and more. This exercise is partly about ensuring that our Depts continue to provide the good service that they curently do, even after we are gone - or if you are being really cynical, that this will allow management to cherry pick the cheap bits (that's just Monday morning talking, by the way!!) cheers Jeremy ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:21:50 -0000 >From: Graham Webb <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: KSF for Assistive Technologists >To: [log in to unmask] > > I don't want anyone to feel disheartened by my > previous post. After your productive weekend E.A., > you will be loved by everyone in your department > when they come to fill out their forms! This process > may also get easier over the years, as definitions > are refined and libraries created. > > > > > > Graham > > > > Clinical Science Trainee (Part 1) > > Department of Medical Physics and Bioengineering > > St Georges Hospital > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology > professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of E.A. Draffan > Sent: 28 January 2007 18:51 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: KSF for Assistive Technologists > > > > As a speech and language therapist in the world of > AT - I have just been struggling with my G1 LD or > Core 2 PP Level 2-4 links between HPC, KSF and CPD > all Sunday afternoon - it is Alphabet soup and yet > we have to comply to remain in the Health > Professional Council (HPC) and as Members of the > Royal College of SLT. I could not agree more with > what Graham said as I fear all my work will lie in > some file for 7 years. > > > > However, I have to admit the RCSLT have a brilliant > website for our CPD in an on-line diary and they > have supplied a toolkit that I am sure they would be > willing to share with you. http://www.rcslt.org > > > > Good luck > > Best Wishes E.A. > > Mrs E.A. Draffan > Assistive Technologist > Mobile: 07976 289103 > http://www.emptech.info/ > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology > professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of Geoff Harbach > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:14 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: KSF for Assistive Technologists > > Thanks both. > > > > I had already been on the skills for health web site > and it is very good. But, I feel I am going to have > to spend quite some time looking through the > individual competencies to find the ones that are > applicable to me. > > > > And rather than just tick off the ones I need for my > present post, perhaps I should be preparing a > profile that covers my whole skill set - to put in > front of someone's nose when I apply for other > posts. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Geoff. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 26/01/2007 21:27:29 GMT Standard > Time, [log in to unmask] writes: > > Geoff, > > > > This type of scheme, the KSF frameworks, was > explained to me by a person who implements these > types of things. I hope I'm not teaching you to > suck eggs here, but this is my humble view: KSFs > apply to all industries (don't feel picked on) - > medical, defence, commerce, industrial, it's a > management style. Senior management style has had > to change over the last few decades as companies > have got much bigger, more multinational. As we > know in the NHS, the lines of communication > between the `top' and `bottom' spheres of > existence are increasingly impeded and obscured > for various reasons. So as an MD (the legal buck > stops with you), what can you do to control your > company to such a fine extent that you can sleep > safely with the knowledge that your product or > service meets and exceeds the applicable > International standards? You have 50,000 employees > working in five continents. Not even Tony Blair in > his cabinet centric days could sit on team that > wide spread to the detail we read about in KSFs. > > > > So, departments become semi-autonomous and KSF > templates are spread around in an effort to pin > down precise activities, scopes, responsibilities > etc. They are akin, in legal detail, to a > technical specification .. a human resource > specification. I was asked to manage a KSF system > for a Prison and quickly found that the idea is > being spread across industries that probably don't > need this sort of scheme. In your case - you are > at the top of your tree, so what point is there > for you to do it? I'd say to you: How much space > do you have to write in the boxes? How much detail > do you feel compelled to write? In the Prison some > forms came back to me packed with detail, others > were scribbled in crayon .. we filed away each > form never to be seen until the next review and a > big box was ticked on the annual site review form. > I can't say what it is like for the NHS, but in > some industries it does make a lot of difference > and it does make some peoples lives a lot easier > somewhere in the system. To us though it's a case > of taking a crude template and stretching in a way > that tells others what we do, when we're all happy > with the terminology. > > > > In the future it'll probably mean a lot more .. > when robots employ us they can ask for people > `with skill set 00112a' or vice versa! > > > > > > > > Graham Webb > > > > Dept. of Medical Physics and Bioengineering > > St Georges Hospital, London. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology > professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Panton Liz (RM6) Northgate & Prudhoe > NHS Trust > Sent: 26 January 2007 17:37 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: KSF for Assistive Technologists > > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > FAST are doing some work on this: > > http://www.fastuk.org/atforumactivities/workforcedevelopment.php > > > > The other place where there is some directly > relevant info (and rather more nick from other > professions) is here: > > > > http://www.skillsforhealth.org.uk/ > > > > The Skills For Health site includes an online tool > for mapping KSF to Skills For Health > competencies. I have found that an easier way > around to match them up than starting from the KSF > end of things. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Liz Panton > > Head of Service > > Communicate > > Featurenet: 8785 5640 > > Telephone: 0191 219 5640 > > Fax: 0191 219 5647 > > Email for General Enquiries: [log in to unmask] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology > professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Geoff Harbach > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:13 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: KSF for Assistive Technologists > > > > Dear All. > > > > I am trying to get my head round this whole > business of the KSF competencies. > > > > Is anyone working on one for Assistive > Technologists, because it seems to me that we need > an unusual mix of skills in order to do what we > do. This being medical and technical skills along > with clinical skills such as assessment for EC and > AAC equipment, let alone weird and wonderful > solutions for new and difficult problems. > > > > Throw in postural management, IT, computer and SLT > skills, and none of the existing competency sets > seem to be completely applicable. > > > > And when you have got a profile, what do you do > with it, do you just go around documenting and > justifying all the things you have been doing for > years anyway - can't quite see the point in it. > > > > There is no position where I am, higher than the > one I have got now to move up to, so what would I > be working towards? Can I go up a pay band on the > basis of advanced competencies earned? > > > > I am perplexed !! > > > > What do people think? > > > > Geoff Harbach > > Clinical Technologist > > WMRC > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - > Release Date: 27/01/2007 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - > Release Date: 27/01/2007 ********************************************************************** Information in this message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient please accept our apologies; please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Please inform us that this message has gone astray before deleting it. 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