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I have a similar experience to Nick - sadly also in the middle of the last century - when my chief insisted on the washing procedure and made us students prove the need for it ourselves. However I do agree with Tim and Elizabeth that there seems to be little if anything in print about this point. What a pity Nick, I and other similar fortunates didn't get to write up our experiences as the results were very very POSITIVE for washing - and in those days we didn't have the opportunity to use copious numbers of gloves as our hands had to take the strain. Note to self - when I get a few minutes I really must chase the literature about this once again!! Regards to all with clean hands........Dennis Huckerby in the city of Basingstoke _____ From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Miller Sent: 18 January 2007 10:05 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Washing hands and phlebotomy No, the problem is to avoid the spread of MRSA from patient to patient, rather than protecting the phlebotomist. Staphylococci will, in general, only be spread by person to person contact e.g. via the intermediary of the phlebotomist's hands. This is a real problem: prevention MRSA has been hampered by, in this respect, the casual attitude of staff who handle and examine patients and hence all the rather tedious measures that have been introduced. The modern skin washes are designed not to cause dermatological problems. You have to wash your hands when you change gloves in case you have transferred the Staph from the outside of the gloves you are removing. I did Staph serotyping as a student (in the middle of the last century!) and I can assure you they are that easily transferred. Nick Miller London On 18/01/07, Reynolds Tim <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I have had the same argument with our infection control people: they cannot give me any evidence that anyone has ever contracted a serious infection from out-patient phlebotomy due to unwashed hands. But Government-driven political correctness means that if you do not wash hands between patients you are a criminal mass murderer who should be shamed in the media.... ************************************************************************ ************* Prof. Tim Reynolds, Queen's Hospital, Belvedere Rd, Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire, DE13 0RB work tel: 01283 511511 ext. 4035 work fax: 01283 593064 work email: [log in to unmask] home email: [log in to unmask] ************************************************************************ ************** IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s)named above and may contain information that is confidential privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. 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If you have received this eMail in error, please add some nutmeg and egg whites, whisk, and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes. -----Original Message----- From: Clinical biochemistry discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Mac Namara Sent: 17 January 2007 23:19 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Washing hands and phlebotomy Once again I need help but I am not so sure the list can help but I will try. The NCCLS guidelines say that technologists should wash there hands between every patient as well as changing gloves. I can not understand why or where this comes from. In a Test Centre setting I was of the opinion that the gloves were there to protect the phlebotomists and not the patient. I am not even sure why the gloves need to be changed between patients if clean. But why wash your hands and change gloves between patients is a total mystery to me. Does anyone know of any evidence to support this policy or if anyone actually complies with the policy proposal to wash hands and change gloves between every phlebotomy done on out patients. Our phlebotomists do 100 to 120 patients per shift. It seems more dangerous to them to have them wash they hands that often every day, five days per week. I do not think the skin could cope with it. As always thanks Elizabeth Mac Namara Jewish General Hospital Montreal ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open discussion list for the academic and clinical community working in clinical biochemistry. Please note, archived messages are public and can be viewed via the internet. Views expressed are those of the individual and they are responsible for all message content. ACB Web Site http://www.acb.org.uk List Archives http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/ACB-CLIN-CHEM-GEN.html List Instructions (How to leave etc.) http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/