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Hi all What interesting discussions! What invites me in Alon's message (and Alan's response to it) is this sense of poetry AND science; cold AND warm, not a harsh either-or polarity. We need both 'objective' (a term I query, having read Sandra Harding's The Science Question and Feminism) science, which has led to so many discoveries, and 'subjective' research, which has revealed so many ways of being, so many nuances and richness of human expression that 'objective' science overlooks or disparages. To pick up Alon's point about poetry being used for scientific purposes, I think one way that poets can assist this is with their 'eye for detail' and expressions that can lead us to see things differently. I just googled the quote below, as it was one that came to me when reading Alon's post, and the second reference was a scientist in Yorkshire using the same passage as the title for his talk. Anyway, here it is - might hit the spot, Alon? Kind regards Pip "To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour." William Blake -----Original Message----- From: BERA Practitioner-Researcher [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alon Serper Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2006 6:22 a.m. To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Educational Alan - I would replace the ed to ing - namely, detached to detaching; fixed to fixing: And space to one's subject of interest: Conceptualising and approaching human existence and the human subject in my case. 'Biology and ecology, human relationships?' in your case? Otherwise I fear we abstract into a theory of all theories. I still think life has to flow somewhere: A clear purpose and intention. Otherwise it is just a big Kierkekaardian bore. The idea of just floating in space with no clear purpose and direction scares me. Anyone can flow somewhere in space: What is important to me is where it is flowing to. I am not sure the question of fixed static or flowing and transforming is an issue anymore, at least not in my field of interest and purpose. The living/transforming has won. I believe the question now is flowing where? My point is that poetry can and should be used for scientific analysis. Poetry is aesthetic but why, for what purpose: And how is it epistemological and educational, convincing and coherent?!. Alon Quoting Alan Rayner <[log in to unmask]>: > Dear Alon, > > I very much like this emphasis on the artistic and lyrical as a vital > inclusion of any deep enquiry into the fundamental nature of human life, > taking you beyond the realm of detached objectivism. I feel that the story > of how you are transforming your originally purely analytical perspectives > by this means exemplifies the transition from fixed to living 'standards of > judgement' and could provide the basis for a highly creative and original > thesis. I might liken this to 'ice melting through becoming receptive to > warmth', 'salt dissolving into solution through exposure to water' and a > 'seed germinating into a flower'. There is this vital transition from the > crystalline or latent form to expansive fluid form, a transition which is > not the 'annihilation' that positivistic thinkers may fear. In terms of > 'inclusionality', I see this transformation as arising most fundamentally > from the dynamic embodiment of space as 'immaterial presence', opening the > door to the creative possibility of unfixed, non-Euclidean geometry. > > > Warmest > > > Alan > > --On 13 December 2006 14:49 +0000 Alon Serper <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> I was watching Federico Fellini's 'La Strada' yesterday: An incredible, >> classic, poetic and artistic film but not so much educational or >> epistemological with no clear message and insight, other than the usual >> Fellinian anti Church messages. And certainly not analysis. It is full >> of artistic symbols (e.g., sea). >> >> I am using it to reflect on the difference between poetic and artistic >> and epistemological, phenomenological, educational and analytical that >> uses poetry and art. >> >> I have been drawn to art in my heuristics of human existence so as to >> analyse and delve inside it as an educational exercise and rebelled >> against my original training that told me to leave the poetic and >> artistic for the analytic, empirical and scientific. >> >> I transformed myself from being a very cold, impersonal scientist to an >> artist of human existence. I am overwhelmed this transformation. >> >> My intentions are still educational and epistemological though as a >> psychologist and the constructor of my heuristics of human existence. Alon >