Diane et al
well yes - the term is problematic -
in a sense 'witch' is the victim - not just of 'christians' but other
practitioners - with which we might otherwise identify - ie the 'cunning
men' etc who often go in for a bit of
'witchhunting' so i'm told?
As to Islam - i would guess there are 'witches' and 'magical practitioners'
in that tradition too - although not too sure what the correct terminology
would be - Hakim maybe - perhaps also Hik?
I've seen discreet 'magick squares' pinned over the threshold of some of the
local curry houses - and then there are those 'sigils' used to drive Brion
Gysin out of his Morrocan business - i guess that was the work of the local
Hakim - perhaps someone knows. For female practioners i would look in
amongst the 'zar' dancers
In the contemporary sphere - AFAIK - Tanya Ahsin - former editor of UK
Prediction magazine self-identified on LBC radio as a muslim witch -
Yes some neo-pagans have problems with what sometimes rather derogatively
called a 'christopag' - but i'm sure i heard Jake Stratton Kent refer to
Thelema as a christian sect. Not forgotting the christian trappings of
organisations such as the Liberal Catholic and Gnostic Catholic churches -
which enjoys a mixed membershp of ritual magi and wiccans. See the recently
released DVD 'Legend of the Witches' for evidence of that and indeed Maxine
Sanders' forthcoming autobiography.
'love and do what you will'
mogg
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-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of diane yoder
Sent: 02 December 2006 12:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Christian/muslim witches
I can also say I've never heard of a "Muslim witch." The Muslims I speak
to would be rather horrified about this as they are against "djinn" and
"magic".
A "Christian" witch is scoffed at by other Wiccans who seem to by and
large (now, I cannot prove this academically except to say I've been in a
lot of Wiccan chats) to laugh at what they perceive as the confusion of
being a "Christian witch." It seems that to some it is akin to simply
"being confused" about what you want to be, because of the longstanding tiff
between Christians and witches courtesy of the very Christian Sprenger and
his Malleus Maleficarum. What was spooky to me was the introduction,
written in 1920 by a Pope who thought Sprenger had a great idea in writing
the Malleus in the first place, and that witch hunting ought to be more
aggressively pursued than it was.
I am sure there is an anthropological take on this too.
Again, looking forward to what the rest of you think. As a Wiccan, mine is
only one point of view. (And I can't believe I just paid 250.00 for the new
two volume edition of the Malleus Maleficarum newly redone and with
scholarly notes vis a vis Oxford University!!)
Diane Yoder
MA candidate, Religion and Literature
Antioch University-McGregor
On 12/2/06, diane yoder < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
I think also, what needs to be taken into account re: Malleus
Maleficarum is that the term "witch" is a Christian construct. I wonder if
those who would practice what Mogg described below would not have considered
themselves "witches" per se....it would be other Christians pointing a
finger and screaming "Witch" that would be the rule of the day.
So perhaps in terms of self-identification, "witchcraft" as we know it
today in which people such as myself are no longer afraid to say "I'm a
witch" (meaning "Wiccan"...is a modern construct--and even some Wiccans
hesitate to use the word "witch" because of its historically negative
connotations).
During the Salem witchcraft trials, Cotton Mather, et. al. were using
the "Rules" of European witch hunting a la Sprenger et. al. as a guide to
"identifying" what a witch was/looked like because apparently, they didn't
know without the "rules." (See Mather's Wonders of the Invisible World). So
would it be proper to even say such rural practitioners were self-identified
as "witches?" Reading "trial" records, it seems these people were pretty
sincere in their denials that they were witches.
What do you all think?
Diane Yoder
Antioch University-McGregor
Yellow Springs, OH
On 12/1/06, Mandrake of Oxford < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear Friend
I guess that before the twentieth century most
european witches were christian -
although perhaps the theology is unorthodox eg:
from 'Secret of Secrets':
'Hail thou holy herb growing on the ground
thou heals many a grief and staunces many a wound
in the name of Jesus Christ I pluck you from the ground.'
so perhaps 'pagan' witchcraft is a modern thing?
and indeed there is no fundamental reason why a magician or witch
shoould not a christian or indeed muslim be ??
Some sabbatics still have 'christian' affiliations
'love and do what you will'
mogg
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of anna hudson
Sent: 02 December 2006 08:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Christian/muslim witches
What do people think re other ( than pagan that is) religious
witches, such as christian or muslim witches (witch being defined as self
identified and a practioner of magic/the Craft)?Are these taken to be pagan
witches who include in their pantheon symbols and Gods of the 'Great'
religions....or ex Christians/muslim who have converted to paganism and
witchcraft.
If a christian witch is seen as valid..then what can be said about
for instance christian muslims? If paganism is seen as a religion can a
christian/muslim witch be???
Anna
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Khem Caigan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Defining Magic
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:56:11 -0400
>Christopher Kimberley doth schriebble:
>> Magic, as usually defined, is a technology which is either
>>accessible to
>>everyone or to a set of a population that has defining
>>characteristics.
>
>And thus the term, *magike techne*.
>
>Cors in Manu Domine,
>
>
>~ Khem Caigan
><[log in to unmask]>
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Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night,
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Alexander Pope (1688-1744) English poet.
--
See Religion and Literature at http://northropfryefan.googlepages.com/home
Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night,
God said: "Let Newton be!", and all was light.
Alexander Pope (1688-1744) English poet.
