I think a lot of this categorization revolves around
the debate between 'religion' and 'practice' in
witchcraft. Specifically, that folk practices were
subsumed under whatever religion ruled the day.
Mogg's original example seems to me to fall under
the category, 'use what you're given' - the name of
power in that context is Jesus. Same reason why
stolen hosts and other Christian items were used in
magical spells. The idea is that before the folk
were converted to Christianity, other names were
used, Diana, Hecate, for example. Though I'm not
sure if there's any evidence for that beyond
fantasy. Makes sense to me, though.
diane yoder <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I can
also say I've never heard of a "Muslim witch." The
Muslims I speak to would be rather horrified about
this as they are against "djinn" and "magic".
A "Christian" witch is scoffed at by other Wiccans
who seem to by and large (now, I cannot prove this
academically except to say I've been in a lot of
Wiccan chats) to laugh at what they perceive as the
confusion of being a "Christian witch." It seems
that to some it is akin to simply "being confused"
about what you want to be, because of the
longstanding tiff between Christians and witches
courtesy of the very Christian Sprenger and his
Malleus Maleficarum. What was spooky to me was the
introduction, written in 1920 by a Pope who thought
Sprenger had a great idea in writing the Malleus in
the first place, and that witch hunting ought to be
more aggressively pursued than it was.
I am sure there is an anthropological take on this
too.
Again, looking forward to what the rest of you
think. As a Wiccan, mine is only one point of view.
(And I can't believe I just paid 250.00 for the new
two volume edition of the Malleus Maleficarum newly
redone and with scholarly notes vis a vis Oxford
University!!)
Diane Yoder
MA candidate, Religion and Literature
Antioch University-McGregor
On 12/2/06, diane yoder < [log in to unmask]>
wrote:I think also, what needs to be taken into
account re: Malleus Maleficarum is that the term
"witch" is a Christian construct. I wonder if those
who would practice what Mogg described below would
not have considered themselves "witches" per
se....it would be other Christians pointing a finger
and screaming "Witch" that would be the rule of the
day.
So perhaps in terms of self-identification,
"witchcraft" as we know it today in which people
such as myself are no longer afraid to say "I'm a
witch" (meaning "Wiccan"...is a modern
construct--and even some Wiccans hesitate to use the
word "witch" because of its historically negative
connotations).
During the Salem witchcraft trials, Cotton Mather,
et. al. were using the "Rules" of European witch
hunting a la Sprenger et. al. as a guide to
"identifying" what a witch was/looked like because
apparently, they didn't know without the "rules."
(See Mather's Wonders of the Invisible World). So
would it be proper to even say such rural
practitioners were self-identified as "witches?"
Reading "trial" records, it seems these people were
pretty sincere in their denials that they were
witches.
What do you all think?
Diane Yoder
Antioch University-McGregor
Yellow Springs, OH
On 12/1/06, Mandrake of Oxford <
[log in to unmask]> wrote: Dear Friend
I guess that before the twentieth century most
european witches were christian -
although perhaps the theology is unorthodox eg:
from 'Secret of Secrets':
'Hail thou holy herb growing on the ground
thou heals many a grief and staunces many a wound
in the name of Jesus Christ I pluck you from the
ground.'
so perhaps 'pagan' witchcraft is a modern thing?
and indeed there is no fundamental reason why a
magician or witch shoould not a christian or indeed
muslim be ??
Some sabbatics still have 'christian' affiliations
'love and do what you will'
mogg
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of anna hudson
Sent: 02 December 2006 08:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Christian/muslim
witches
What do people think re other ( than pagan
that is) religious witches, such as christian or
muslim witches (witch being defined as self
identified and a practioner of magic/the
Craft)?Are these taken to be pagan witches who
include in their pantheon symbols and Gods of the
'Great' religions....or ex Christians/muslim who
have converted to paganism and witchcraft.
If a christian witch is seen as valid..then what
can be said about for instance christian muslims?
If paganism is seen as a religion can a
christian/muslim witch be???
Anna
---------------------------------
From: Khem Caigan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Society for The Academic Study of
Magic <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Defining Magic
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:56:11 -0400
Christopher Kimberley doth schriebble:
Magic, as usually defined, is a technology
which is either
accessible to
everyone or to a set of a population that has
defining
characteristics.
And thus the term, *magike techne*.
Cors in Manu Domine,
~ Khem Caigan
<[log in to unmask]>
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See Religion and Literature at
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Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night,
God said: "Let Newton be!", and all was light.
Alexander Pope (1688-1744) English poet.
--
See Religion and Literature at
http://northropfryefan.googlepages.com/home
Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night,
God said: "Let Newton be!", and all was light.
Alexander Pope (1688-1744) English poet.
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