No spelling mistake (on this occassion) with my use of the word 'canon'. This was a reference to the power of religion. The 'barons' refer to those who mostly control our social and economic structures as well put by Cathy and David below. The intended construction and advance of the 10k may help a little toward enlightening the big guns but I fear it is more likely to shield and prolong their reign at even greater loss to us all, including themselves. Our species and planet cannot cope with these 'valley of death' conflicts and inequalities indefinately. I just hope we can come up with a universal light giving brigade before it is too late for all of us. My hopes for this are currently largely with list members and your allies - most people on this planet I should imagine.Mike S----- Original Message -----From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">David FryerTo: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:21 PMSubject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....Who would train the 10,000 psychologists? Yet more psychologists (to be employed and trained to train) of course.Would they come from the same school . . . . I would bet on training primarily to deliver cognitive behaviour therapy to people diagnosed as 'anxious' or 'depressed' . Much easier (and politically acceptable) to offer people psychological snake oil than to change our society to remove social causes of psychological distress and physical illness like unemployment, stressful employment, domestic violence, racism, heterosexism, disabling practices . . . . .If you want to get a glimpse of the likely future have a look at the MSc Psychological Therapy in Primary Care at Stirling University: "A variety of studies by central government and professional bodies have identified the growing demand for psychological interventions for adults presenting with common mental health disorders (e.g. anxiety and depression) in NHS Primary care. There is also widespread recognition of the difficulties in meeting that demand. This Masters program, delivered jointly by the Universities of Stirling and Dundee has been designed by National Health Service (NHS) professionals and experienced academics to train people to deliver psychological therapies for common mental health disorders in adults in Primary Care." http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/postgrad/propspectus2.phpTo get back to Tennyson . . . I too struggled with the light brigade comparison, find the poem's images repugnant on a variety of levels and certainly do not see the 10K psychologists as the innocent victims. Cathy McCormack has spoken powerfully of the 'war without bullets' being waged against people lower down the social hierarchy by people higher up it . . . .a war being fought with brief cases, policies leading to widening inequalities, stigma, disabling practices and psy-techniques which lead people to internalise understandings of themselves and their settings which are damaging to them and serve the interests of the status quo. So if we are to think in terms of the charge of the light brigade at all, I suggest imagining those advancing into the valley of death as being those millions of our fellow citizens who epidemiologists have repeatedly shown have shorter, less healthy, more brutalised lives due to a variety of forms of societal inequality and imagine the the 10,000 psychologists as camped on the sides of the valley operating the CBT cannon to the left of them, the person centred cannon to the right of them, the stress management cannon in front of them and the positive psychology cannon behind themAs for Marx . . .. I don't know about others but if my work was described as Marxist I would take it as a compliment . . .DavidDavid Fryer
Community Psychology Group
University of Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
Sent: 29 June 2006 1:53 pm
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....I don't know who you are or what you do. Sounds Marxist to me. I can't come up with a different metaphor at this moment but how about just not seeing the world in terms of them and "us" with psychologists the innocent victims in all this.Does not anyone know the theory behind this - that as people are rewarded they will align themselves with the oppressors? Psychologists can do harm as well as good, as any of us can. But they do have a lot of power.I would want to ask, who is going to train all these psychologists? Are they all going to come from the same school - the same way of thinking. Wouldn't it be better to have a variety of mental health professionals - if there has to be - to deal with different kinds of people - psychoanalysts, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, trained women's counsellors, and so on. It's frightening to think of so many psychologists wandering the social community seeking out new "victims" to indoctrinate into their way of thinking - particularly if they've all studied and come from the perspective of behaviourism.Sue McPhersonSociology (social-psychology and women's studies), envisioning wannabee psychologists rubbing their hands with glee.___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]----- Original Message -----From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Serdar M. DegirmenciogluTo: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:29 AMSubject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]Well put...Serdar M. Degirmencioglu----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Swindlehurst <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....
Into the valley of death rode the ten thousand - canons to the left of them, barons to the right of them. Yet more measures to protect the big guns who are destroying all of us.
Mike S
___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]----- Original Message -----From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank rel=nofollow>David FryerTo: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=_blank rel=nofollow>[log in to unmask]Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:59 PMSubject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....Why 10,000 psychologists needed?
In his paper, The Role of the Psychologist, Ignacio Martin-Baro cited French psychologist, Richelle, as asking Why psychologists?, why the quiet proliferation of a new species and Deleule as offering an insightful reply psychology offers an alternative solution to social conflicts: it tries to change the individual while preserving the social order, or, in the best of cases, generating the illusion that, perhaps as the individual changes, so will the social order. Martin Baro commented when looking dispassionately at the place some psychological concepts occupy in the dominant political and cultural discourse, or when pondering the role played by the majority of psychologists in our countries, one has to concede that Deleule makes a lot of sense (Aron and Corne, 1994:37).
Aron, A. and Corne, S. (Editors) (1994). Writings for a Liberation Psychology: Ignacio Martin-Baro. Harvard University Press: Cambridge , Mass.
David
David Fryer
Community Psychology Group
University of Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
Sent: 23 June 2006 1:38 pm
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....Or, people could respond on this list, if they don't mind not making "rapid response." What do you think, Petra? You must have an opinion on this, surely.Sue McPherson--
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