1) a) Of course - b) that's exactly why I speak of imitations &
per/versions.
2) But what is anything *put* into language a translation of? To me, a
poem is a creation, a construct, an artefact. Who's worrying? What I was
polemically digging at was the spread of watery "translations" coming to
replace, in their pseudo-poetic way, the original complexity. I am
thinking especially of all the awful translations of Rilke I have seen.
3) I never said it wasn't.
4) I like Robert Kelly's translation of Shelley.
Martin
Pierre Joris wrote:
> 1) a) of course, poetry is untranslatable. and b) that's exactly why
> we have to translate it.
>
> 2) anything put into language is already a translation, language is
> already a translation, so there is no pre-translation, no original
> untranslated text. and if all is always-already translation, why worry?
>
> 3) belief is useless when translating or writing.
>
> Pierre
>
>
> On May 8, 2006, at 3:45 PM, MJ Walker wrote:
>
>> I'm curious, Stephen - how do they translate the "found" bits where
>> the poetic effect depends on your understanding French words in a
>> different context, like place-names? If you translate Vierge in a
>> place-name, fr'instance, it comes out unFrench as Virgin (oh, that
>> railway company), if you don't, you don't understand why it chimes
>> with Marie, etc etc.(That's in a poem called something something
>> *naturel*, in my sagging memory) There's a lot of that Oulipian sort
>> of thing going on in that book. (OUvroir de LIttérature
>> POtentielle). I no longer believe in poetry translation - imitation,
>> yes (Nachdichtung), crib, yes, but not traduttore= traditore. But
>> even novels come out of the machine bleached or discoloured, and
>> they're something else again ("He's something, Else", as Frieda von
>> Richthofen said to her sister.)
>> mjay
>>
>> Stephen Vincent wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, speaking of Ouilipo, particularly for its wonderfully
>>> diverse
>>> and exhaustive embrace of Paris, I suggest folks keep their eyes
>>> for Jacques
>>> Roubaud's "The Form of a city changes faster, alas, than the human
>>> heart."
>>> It's coming out from Dalkey Archive Press in July and is translated
>>> by Keith
>>> and Rosemarie Waldrop. I got an advance review copy and I can't
>>> put it
>>> down, well, I did for this!
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/
>>> Currently home of the "Tenderly" series,
>>> A serial work in progress.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> The self that shines in the greying sunshine
>> of the immediate is actual, though it is
>> not all that is there. - Douglas Oliver
>
>
> ==============================================
> "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman
> Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa.
> ==============================================
> Pierre Joris
> 244 Elm Street
> Albany NY 12202
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> http://pierrejoris.com
> Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com
> =========================
--
The self that shines in the greying sunshine
of the immediate is actual, though it is
not all that is there. - Douglas Oliver
