Pierre - I have already translated your piece into Martian. It's going out
this evening. Do you care to add a bio note. Go quickly. I really want to
send this out this evening. They are a bunch of hungry bastards - no
translation, no lunch, let alone the water!
Stephen V
http://stephenvincent.net/blog/
Currently home of the Tenderly series,
A serial work in progress.
> Pierre,
>
> that's beautiful
>
> thx
>
> Randolph
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pierre Joris" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [POETRYETC] kenneth koch's manuals
>
>
>> 1) of course, poetry is untranslatable. and that's exactly why we have to
>> translate it.
>>
>> 2) anything put into language is already a translation, language is
>> already a translation, so there is no pre-translation, no original
>> untranslated text. and if all is always-already translation, why worry?
>>
>> 3) belief is useless when translating or writing.
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> On May 8, 2006, at 3:45 PM, MJ Walker wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious, Stephen - how do they translate the "found" bits where the
>>> poetic effect depends on your understanding French words in a different
>>> context, like place-names? If you translate Vierge in a place-name,
>>> fr'instance, it comes out unFrench as Virgin (oh, that railway company),
>>> if you don't, you don't understand why it chimes with Marie, etc
>>> etc.(That's in a poem called something something *naturel*, in my
>>> sagging memory) There's a lot of that Oulipian sort of thing going on in
>>> that book. (OUvroir de LIttérature POtentielle). I no longer believe in
>>> poetry translation - imitation, yes (Nachdichtung), crib, yes, but not
>>> traduttore= traditore. But even novels come out of the machine bleached
>>> or discoloured, and they're something else again ("He's something,
>>> Else", as Frieda von Richthofen said to her sister.)
>>> mjay
>>>
>>> Stephen Vincent wrote:
>>>
>>>> By the way, speaking of Ouilipo, particularly for its wonderfully
>>>> diverse
>>>> and exhaustive embrace of Paris, I suggest folks keep their eyes for
>>>> Jacques
>>>> Roubaud's "The Form of a city changes faster, alas, than the human
>>>> heart."
>>>> It's coming out from Dalkey Archive Press in July and is translated by
>>>> Keith
>>>> and Rosemarie Waldrop. I got an advance review copy and I can't put it
>>>> down, well, I did for this!
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/
>>>> Currently home of the "Tenderly" series,
>>>> A serial work in progress.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> The self that shines in the greying sunshine
>>> of the immediate is actual, though it is
>>> not all that is there. - Douglas Oliver
>>
>> ==============================================
>> "Blasphemy is a victimless crime." -- a t-shirt sent to Salman
>> Rushdie in the days of the Satanic Verses fatwa.
>> ==============================================
>> Pierre Joris
>> 244 Elm Street
>> Albany NY 12202
>> h: 518 426 0433
>> c: 518 225 7123
>> o: 518 442 40 85
>> Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>> http://pierrejoris.com
>> Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com
>> =========================
>>
>>
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