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One for any Possible Pedant who might be lurking hereabouts (not that I have anyone particular in mind) Earlier on a BBC7 replay of an old edition of Quote UnQuote the question of the origins of : 'Life's a bitch, and then you die' came up. Now not, I hasten to append, that I agree with that sentiment, but I am curious. The best they could come with was Urban American (must be, I nod at that) but earliest known citation was 1986. Now they felt that was too recent and same here too. Any offers? Best Dave