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To Wilfred, Does this definition help? Noise becomes data when it has cognitive pattern that can be registered in our minds Data becomes information when you can assemble it into a coherent whole which can be related to other information, to become ‘the difference that makes the difference’ Information becomes knowledge when it is integrated with other useful information in a form useful for making decisions and determining actions Knowledge becomes understanding when it can be related to other knowledge in a manner useful in conceiving, anticipating and judging Understanding becomes wisdom when it is informed by ethics, principles, spirituality, memory and imagination’ DEE W HOCK: Founder and CEO Emeritus VISA USA and VISA International Isn't wisdom the evaluative function of the brain? I agree with you that some people have never developed the function, for whatever reason, often due to childhood trauma (Remember transactional analysis - I'm OK - you're OK?) and social conditioning. Sometimes even due to physical abnormalities and mental illness. Others never develop it because they are just too lazy to think. Thinking is hard work and most people avoid it. But I still contend that, like any other skill, critical evaluative thinking can be taught.I have taught it myself with results that have astounded me. I agree with you too, that we either have it or we do not. That goes back to the Christian parable of the Sower - the same seeds can fall on very different types of ground and many never take root. Others may take root in ways we could never have anticipated. 'The spirit blows where it will' - but I don't think that is an argument for depriving people, especially children in their most formative years, of the chance of receiving those seeds. If we never scatter them we will never get a harvest. I think the key question isn't 'should we?' but 'HOW do we? Judgement is very subjective and much damage has been caused many times in the past by the teaching of evaluative skills in ways that promote hidden agendas, good and bad. I suggest the starting point should be, as others have suggested, to define what we mean by success. Best wishes Cherryl -----Original Message----- From: Group concerned that academia should seek and promote wisdom [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen Sent: 18 May 2006 4:40 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: What next? Mat and others, Once again, I am pretty sure wisdom can not be taught. Knowledge can, but wisdom not. Wisdom is a part of the individual and like I said someone has it or does not have it. Anyone not agreeing to that statement should just put his effort in just picking someone or just pick whatever bunch of people from the street and make them wise. I wish them a lot of success in that case. The phrase on the left hand column of the website of friends of wisdom “This is an association of people sympathetic to the idea that academic inquiry should help humanity acquire more wisdom by rational means.” Does not tell anything about helping people acquiring wisdom. At first instance not, a least that is my perception of the sentence. I is quite generally about helping humanity to acquire more wisdom. In my point of view we still have to decide on the means. Whether that will be only the people or also information resources like f.i. the Internet. And which people we would like to gather more wisdom and through what means. Whether it is about more wisdom or about acquiring wisdom (which is not possible in my opinion since I regard wisdom as something a person has and being wise as a certain level of wisdom which is different for each person to call someone wise since the definition wise is also a relative definition). But, that is my opinion based on what I regards as wise and wisdom. To me wisdom also has to do with personal capabilities and to me yes of course people have it or have it not. It is mostly agreed upon that most people in the madhouse do not have wisdom normally speaking. Although some might have it at certain clear moments, but then again it has to be a capacity of that person. So that is why I remark about facilitation rather then teaching wisdom. Knowledge can be teached and leads to more wisdom and a wiser person. But wisdom itself like I define it for myself can not be teached in any way. Karl Popper does mention it also in his excellent book "the open society and its enemies" that some people "see" things and others are "blind" for it. That remark of him had no direct connection with wisdom, but I think the general capacity to "see" things does. Wisdom for sure has to be valued, cherished and encouraged and I suppose all the people here agree on that otherwise we would not be on this list. Mat, you are referring to "your" definition of wisdom. Which is probably a mixture of the definitions of other people and some anotherness of yourself. But I would be interested to know that definition? “Wisdom is taken to be the capacity to realize what is of value in life, for oneself and others. It includes knowledge, understanding and technological know-how, and much else besides.” I fully agree also with the definition above. Kind regards from the Netherlands, Wilfred Berendsen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 12-5-2006 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.0/342 - Release Date: 17/05/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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