I think your point is fair Adrian, but I think Doc is speaking a lot of sense.  I believe we are too quick to undervalue ourselves in an attempt to be helpful and forward thinking as a specialty.  Locally we already provide far more shop floor cover than is recommended by BAEM for our numbers and I frequently find myself walking the hospital corridors during hours when the physicians are sitting at home whilst there is a four hour wait for their juniors to clerk medical referrals.  I do believe we should be providing a consultant led service, and I also think we can show other specialties the way but personally I am reluctant to sacrifice my personal life to achieve an artificial ' target' in the vain hope it will convince others that they should do more work out of hours.
 
Out of interest, how does it affect our specialty when ED consultants (me included) do agree to work beyond the level of cover recommended by our specialty?  Are we being helpful, realistic or selling ourselves short?
 
Simon
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Fogarty [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 10 May 2006 15:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: remuneration for queue bashing

I'm not sure I would agree with this "I don't think consultants should queue bash even 9-5". OK, I don't like to routinely queue bash, but given the sometimes wide fluctuation in our workload, I don't think we can escape occasional queue bashing. Sure, other levels of staffing can do this, I agree, but I don't agree that ED consultants should be somehow "above" this type of work. After all, other consultants frequently do routine jobs, whether a consultant in OPD, an anaesthetist on a routine day list, or a radiologist/pathologist on routine reporting etc.
 
AF

Doc Holiday <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>But I'm surprised you get any rate at all for bank holidays. Aren't these
>part of every consultant's contract, in the same way weekend cover is?
>(Except you can take a day in lieu obviously.)

--> I am not aware of them being part of contracts except as described in
one's job description. And the latter, of course, is individualised.

I think it is important to achieve a standard in one's department and then,
such a standard, should cover 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Consultants
on the shop floor should eventually be one such standard, but, as we all
know, there are not "enough" consultants about for this. Not that they do
not exist, exactly. Each department has its own cover hours, some longer
than others even with similar consultant numbers. It is logical to say that
there are enough consultants in the UK for SOME departments, although
nowhere near a significant quantity, to have 24-hour shop-floor working
presence. In theory, for example, department X and its trust elected to have
this cover and decided it required Y consultants, they could recruit that
many. But they would have to find those who wanted to do this, knowing that
the majority in the country do not. Some consultants will refuse to do it
completely and this is understandable, as it was probably something they did
not "sign up for" when they chose the career. For those others who would
agree, a suitable remuneration system would be required and it is THIS
(remuneration) that trusts don't have enough of, or don't wish to allocate
enough to. Hence, business-wise, there will always be the drive to try to
get the most they can for the buck they won't invest.

With this in mind, one must check one's job description not only for the
hours of work, but also for the typr of work one is expected to do.

I don't think consultants should "queue bash" even 9-5. If they do that,
then, by definition, you are using your most expensive asset for a job
others can do and more of these others should be paid to be around - this
makes financial sense if we accept that these others CAN do the job.

My previous point on this item, to expand, means that for ED consultants in
this way are expected in when a certain size queue or waiting time is
present, i.e. a numerical criterion. The parallel criterion would be for a
number of simple, but urgent, orthopaedic and surgical cases which will
require the trust to call in surgical consultants to "queue bash" with their
SpRs in theatre, alongside with the relevant support from anaesthetists and
other staff and theatre facilities - i.e. a 24-hours NHS. We'll need
radiologists to be paid to come in outside hours to reduce the queue of
unreported X-rays in trusts where they have more than a "next day" target
for this (assuming "next day" is good enough. There should not be a waiting
list for most things if everyone was paid enough to come in at weird hours
and sacrifice their family time, etc.

There is not the money allocated for this. In some countries, to various
degrees, in some specialties, there is and, of course EM will probably be
front of the queue for it! I am looking forward to when EM consultants are
paid enough to make all these anti-social shifts worthwhile. I am NOT
against a 24-hour service. I am against a 24-hours service with
discriminatory under-payment for those who provide it.