Sue
Also I don't think personal attack is or should ever be part of a community psychology list. To be transparent about your position is not to be setting yourself apart from ordinary people and in a sense 'It's ridicualous to think people can have genuine respect for other people's views.' but we could attempt to do so that this list doesn't 'put off' people who don't feel like having their posts pulled to pieces. I'm all up for examining positions in depth, but I'm not here to 'catch people out' for inconsistencies. That would be totally pointless and would not serve much puporse for me on a community psychology list.
Mike
Sue McPherson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Georgia; } @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } And maybe people should just write in without adding their credentials after their name? If you really
thought ordinary people were the experts you would have left that off.
Sue McPherson
----- Original Message -----
From: Rachael Fox {PG}
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: List definition
Well you’ve all lost me.
My name is Rachael and I have enjoyed reading this list serve for ages, but like lots of people I’ve never contributed. On the one hand I like how rigorous and critical discussions become and often agree. On the other hand up till now I have been too cowardly to actually post anything – partly because my humour is often misplaced and would very possibly be taken the wrong way on a sensitive list such as this! But also because I often type and send before thinking and am afraid to be misunderstood on a medium which doesn’t really lend itself to communication and interaction so well.
So slightly tentatively, here are my first (hopefully of many) views on recently posted opinions and issues
Experts are viewed as such in our society if they have more education than everyone else, are paid more, and/or have more power. Obviously that’s rubbish – who the expert is really depends on what they are called to be an expert on. People who have experienced distress at the hands of society (aka mental ill heath and/or poverty among other things) are clearly the experts when it comes to dealing with these issues.
If you want to know exactly how to conform to the system and create an industry out of distress, so that you can be viewed in our society as an expert, then I guess most of us on this list serve would be experts in that!
The real difficult bit for this list serve I think is how can we discuss things in a critical and thoughtful way whilst still retaining the principles we value such as non conventional beliefs about who is the expert, or a welcoming sense of community - especially since a lot of people who subscribe to this list (myself included) are deeply embedded in institutions and structures that negatively affect the way we think and act?
Phew, glad that’s over!
Rachael Fox
Postgraduate Student
Community Psychology Group
Department of Psychology
University of Stirling
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
Sent: 27 April 2006 10:03 am
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: List definition
It isn't just people with PhDs who have power. If you have money or have had an influential career in the community you an also have power.
Psychology is not a rational science and in its its common form will always be used against people, to control them, even, or especially by people - experts - who should know better - for example, in Sociology. It's ridicualous to think people can have genuine respect for other people's views. That's utter nonsense.
Sue McPherson
----- Original Message -----
From: MICHAEL SWINDLEHURST
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: List definition
Thank you for the encouragement John,
I do agree with Sue about the omnipotent powers of 'experts', regardless of whether deserving highly influential titles or not, and suspect this is why many members without letters after their name are are afraid to speak up or feel it is a waste of time. As a Pensioner non-academic 'mental health client' contributor to Annie's Psychology Service User Advisory Group, our work together as a wide range of experts in living - as all people are - has already introduced practical changes toward any potential for turning psychology into a rational and positive science. The key has been genuine respect for each other's views, knowledge and experience - accepted as of equal value in our guiding concern for the prospects of all people. My first awareness of community psychology as a practical art and science was as a commercial art student. Here one is taught how to con the public into thinking, feeling and acting in ways that mostly benefit a minority at great costs to the
majority and our planet. The same principle is used in most aspects of our society, not least religion and politics, so I feel that learning to live with it is very dangerous for all of us. In the meantime, we can need individual treatment to keep us going or restrained but it must not be allowed to be used as a political tool to ignore and maintain the root causes of ever-growing individual, social and global ills.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: John Cromby
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: List definition
Hi Mike
I'm sorry and surprised to hear that you had a bad response to your earlier post. I thought your characterisation of CBT as 'coercive bullying tactics' was fantastic. And I agree, the list should have more of a focus on how social and economic structures impact upon us in our daily lives.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: MICHAEL SWINDLEHURST
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: List definition
It does appear from recent postings that there is a need to define who and what the discussion list is for. My hope in joining was that it may be a medium for discussing practical ideas to change the social and economic structures behind most mental ill health. A recent response to one of my postings certainly made me feel like 'riff-raff' and I wonder how many other 'experts by experience' members at client and CMHT level are afraid to offer responses and ideas for fear of feeling the same. Perhaps there is need to be mindful of what 'Communiy Psychology' means?
Mike
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