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Right on to all that, Alison - (out of context of the actual exchange on which I make no comment) Good on you L -----Original Message----- From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Feminism: an aside (was Re: Help! The grass is singing) Maybe if we can get rape convictions up above a world average of 2.7 per cent (less than 1 per cent in Britain) a result, as is generally agreed, of the structural bias of the justice system, we can talk about self indulgence. Maybe if women's salaries weren't on average 15 per cent lower than men's, even for the same work, we could talk about self indulgence. Maybe if 77 per cent of domestic violence murders were not men killing women, we could talk about self indulgence. And here's a good quote on the so-called "equality" of violence between women and men from Pru Goward, Australia's Sex Discrimination Officer: Involving men in anti-violence work can be difficult however, because some men believe that women beat men as often as men beat women. They argue domestic violence campaigns are the work of men-hating feminists. This is despite official homicide figures which demonstrate that 77% of murders in Australia between intimate partners involve a man killing a woman; 21% involve a woman killing a man. One government survey found that 50.5% of women victims reported being physically hurt compared with 1.5% of men. While it is clear that claims of equalı amounts and types of violence are at best mistaken and at worst malevolent, anyone involving themselves in this campaign should anticipate this response and be ready to stand their ground. Of course domestic violence with women as perpetrators, slapping, hitting, even stabbing, must be acknowledged. The verbal bullying frequently associated with women, the cold treatment, the stories of men being physically harassed by women, are all on the continuum of domestic violence. But they are not murder. The point to make is this: being anti-violence against women does not mean you are pro-violence towards men, or that you do not support the prevention of violence against men or support for male victims. One does not preclude the other, but we must always acknowledge the evidence, which shows it is overwhelmingly the case that women are more likely to be victims, and men more likely to be perpetrators. Men have a stake in their effort to tackle violence against women because as UNIFEM points out some menıs violence against women gives all men a bad name. By doing nothing, men give their tacit approval of violence against women, and in doing so they diminish the status of men as well as the status of women. Alison Croggon Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com