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Alison it would be weird if I did think I was the John Clare of contemporary poetry, his circumstances and aesthetic were entirely different again. Personal bile? - no, no, although I am aware that the peculiar nature of e-mail discussions can make things sound so, notice that word 'sound' used in application to a written medium, therein lies the paradox of e-mail: it's talk, and loose as such, but talk written on stone. What you say about history is, alas, basically true. And true still now. I am literate by accident, not by class or education, in that I am a freak of circumstance. I certainly do feel anger, principally at a deputy headmaster called Tyson who victimised me when I was thirteen (he was a sadist who made of practise of bullying lower-classs boys) and so I repeat that pain, and too at the Health Service, for effectively killing my father, mother and brother through wrong diagnoses, at my former employers for giving me a nervous breakdown because I was considered 'left-wing', at the deadly conformity and closed-ranks mentality of the new bougeousie, and too at the pseudo-poetry our society generates. But, having said that, my overall attitude is one of wry resignation: to take an image from consumerism, it's the way the cookie crumbles. Got conjunctivitis here so I'm writing this with one eye, appropriate to this tenor of discussion, yes? All the Best (and I mean that too) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:21 AM Subject: Re: Snap/3-15-06--"The God Thing" > David, I'd like to know when literate (I mean written down, not oral) poetry > _wasn't_ principally a middle class or aristocratic pursuit. It's probably > less class-bound now than at any time in literate history. The fact that > Wordsworth was a bourgeois plonker doesn't stop The Prelude from being a > staggering piece of work. Nor are you by any means the John Clare of > contemporary poetry. > > I'd appreciate it too if you didn't derail discussion with expressions of > personal bile. > > Thanks. > > A > > > On 20/3/06 10:52 AM, "David Bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > I think, Stephen, the empire I live in can be loosely described as the > > Anglo-American global capitalist one. > > > > I'm glad you remain open to recent UK poets, particularly as my opinion of > > them is that they are neglible, my chauvinism seems to have lost its point > > on this. > > > > I am, and remain, a member of the UK underclass, to adapt Macdiamid's > > phrase, I am not for the poor I am of them. The poetry scene in the UK is > > sickeningly bourgeouise, (and that applies to the mainstream, the > > pseudo-avant-garde, the performance poets, the ethnics, the whole damn lot) > > as is the equivalent cultural wank in the States. > > > > I look at times at Ron Silliman's industrious blog: recently he outlined his > > version of literary history, after about 1950 it blossoms into an enormity > > of Americans, the this school or the that, never mind that none of them have > > a memorable line between them, but they're AMERICAN. > > > > Yaheey, talk about chauvinism. If you want an index of recent US poetry the > > writer with most impact is Kent Johnson, of all people, it says a lot. > > > > Best > > > > Dave > > > > Alison Croggon > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au > Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com